[ninjasteve]

Hi everyone.. just joined... i lost my dog Maia on the 31st...still devastated over it.. i keep looking for answers and i know i wont be any definitive ones but if i get some ideas, then maybe i can try and wrap my head around it. She was going to be 15 this coming December. I know she lived a good life.. in fact she had had been battling cushings(we believe) for the past oh i dont know, almost 5 years. She was having symptoms of it, had her tested with LDDS test and it came back negative. So the Dr and I said we will keep it out there on the table and can revisit if need be and retest down the road. So i was giving her the lignans and melatonin combo the whole time, and she was doing good on it, i think her symptoms were getting worse. I changed vets a little over a year ago. This past spring i was going to get her retested again, this time ACTH test but he didnt have any in at the moment and well we kind of just swept it under the rug and i kept giving her the natural supplements. Also back in 2015 she blew out both ACLs... had surgery done on just one of them because i didnt have the 5k needed for both, and with crate rest etc she did recover pretty good. Went on lots of walks, did develop some weird gait a little bit down the road, her old Dr recommended putting her carprofen, to which i declined because she wasnt limping or anything and i feel as some of these vets just want to hand out pills like candy. Anyhow, about 15 months ago she developed a weird cough with gag at the end of it... her new Dr and i talked and we thought it maybe COPD.. but my bad i didnt get it actually checked out, as her activity level was still good etc. and she didnt cough all the time. .. never ever coughed during exercise, was only if she was laying down or in the morning and sometimes during the night. I noticed for a little while as well that her exhales were kind of weird, like more forced out, and you could feel her belly tighten to push out the air. never had a problem inhaling etc, and never seemed like she was struggling to breathe. again we figured COPD or because of the cushings they can get calcification in their lungs. so for the past few months or more she has been sleeping a good amount, but again cushings, older age, was having bad arthritis issues, i mean getting worse and worse, its to be expected right? she has been on CBD for a little while.. was getting higher vitamin C as i read thats good for arthritis, we gave her esther C. she was getting krill oil more recently... 1000mg of milk thistle for her liver and glucosamine supplement, liquid kind we got from tractor supply. she also got probiotic as well. a few weeks ago we put her on gabapentin, 100mg twice a day.. again no NSAID because i was scared of what they can do and with her age and liver enzymes being higher for a while, she seemed kind of ok for a few days and then developed ataxia (read end weakness) so we decided no more and weaned her off. btw, she had also been taking on and off nutrivet chewable aspirin... sorry, forgot to say that.. and it was working decently but i think she was getting too far advanced hence the reason to go with actual meds. So i called my vet and we decided to try meloxicam and amantadine...read some good things about BOTH and how they work great together. So based on her weight she was to get a quarter of a 7.5mg meloxicam and 50mg of amantadine once a day. Sunday the 30th gave her her first dose, and she did good all day..even seems slightly better, in fact she went up half our steps on her own even jumping up the last couple steps. I was stoked.. Monday the 31st came, gave her second dose in the morning... we went to work.. but have cameras on our house.. around quarter to 11 AM she was on the landing of our stairs and howling and barking, i think she developed seperation anxiety.. and around 3:30 pm my wife came home.. she was laying in the dining room.. quiet.. had pooped on the puppy pads we had lined around the house because of her arthtitis being bad.. the poop looked good except in the end was a little diarrhea looking.. anyhow, she was like sleeping and snoring, out like a light.. my wife was cooking her lean burger that we supplemented with her kibble.. normally she would come out as she smelled it etc.. but she didnt..so she checked on her..and was just lethargic and weird... but thought well ok, off day... then she heard a weird whimper and i guess she moved from her spot and walked about 10 feet and pooped a little more which was mushy and peed a little and just collapsed... she offered some burger and a treat and she didnt want it... i rushed home thinking allergic reaction to the meds... called her vet who is further away and they just said no more amantadine...well from the time i got home, she was getting worse.. had these weird shivers... was drooling a little... couldnt get up... and then its like she slipped into a weird coma.. shallower breathing... i was on the phone with some vets in the area but they couldnt get her in so we rushed her to the ER which was still around 50 minutes away.. she was semi with it on the ride, lifting her head up a half dozen times... finally got her to ER.. they came out and brought her in saying she looked pretty critical.. then i got the call.. they did xray image..bedside ultrasound... she has significant pulmonary edema and then went into cardiac arrest.. i asked if the meds maybe played a part to which i was told no they didnt think so...and then when i said well maybe the amantadine? and she said maybe a slight chance it pushed her into that but doubtful.. has anyone experienced anything like this at all?? i did consult with a few other vets.. two of them who are cardiologists at a University.. the one said her heart did look a little enlarged and maybe she had a valve issue or maybe had an embolism, pulmonary thrombo as cushing patients are prone to these etc.. but also said doubtful the meds caused this... the last cardiologist at another university looked her summary over and the xray image and said he didnt see any enlargement on the image.. its only one image and was taken of her left side.. but looked like she def suffered from a primary pulmonary issue... so now im look wtf?? i get told yea heart enlarged to no i dont see any enlargement...even my regular vet said it didnt look that big to him... he ha seen ALOT bigger.. but again maybe a valve issue or pulmonary hypertension etc.. not sure there are any vets on here but i can send the image and summary to them if they want. Just seems like it happened so quickly.. again she was not well before this.. with the breathing issues, and sleeping alot etc.. she did also skip some meals at times but i dont think she cared for the lean kibble she was on.. one last thing too, her summary did say her heart walls looked really thick and not contracting well.. just at a loss.. im sorry for such a huge story and it seems like im all over the place.. Thanks to anyone who has any insight. I cant find many bad reviews on meloxicam or the amantadine Thanks!

 

[JoanneF]

I don't have anything helpful but I am sorry for your loss. It's normal to want to understand and look for answers, but you may not find anything satisfactory. Have you considered pet bereavement counselling?

 

[LMMB]

So sorry, I can't offer anything helpful either, but sorry for your loss.

It's human nature, I think, to want to find answers - especially in grief - but the search for those answers can lead to more "what ifs," and feelings of guilt. You did the best you could for her, acted on the vet's advice. No one could have done more.

She lived a long and happy life, surrounded by people who loved her and died knowing that. She's not suffering, in no more pain.

I don't know if you're religious. But this might help;

"Just this side of Heaven, is a place called Rainbow Bridge, where all our beloved pets go when they die.

At the Bridge, they are restored to youthful vigour, the aches and pains and diseases eased and cured. There are fields and meadows bathed in warm sunlight in which they can spend years running free with their friends.

Then, one day, your pet stops running. They turn their head, sniff the air, bright eyes and ears alert. They break free from their group of friends and run, faster and faster towards the entrance of the Bridge.

You have been spotted. Once again, you see that beloved face, pet that much missed head, your hands sinking into soft fur as your long lost friend leaps into your arms and showers you with licks and kisses.

Together, you cross the Bridge and pass into Heaven, never to be parted again."

"When you're walking down the street.
Memories of me on your mind,
I'm walking in your footsteps,
Just half a step behind.

And when the times comes for you to go
From that body, to be free
Remember you're not going,
You're coming home
To me."

Anonymous

 

[Mad Murphy]

Both the drugs you mention are 'safe' pain relief NSAID's type meds.

Of course anyone /any dog can have an adverse reaction to any drug.
But, the chances are that this was her time, dogs can go downhill very fast. Ive seen this myself Benny walked and ran in the grass on a sunny sunday morning two days later he could hardly walk and on the fifth day he died.
For Remy the end was even quicker but that doesnt mean they didnt have underlying or background health issues.

Ive owned lots of dogs and so Ive had to say goodbye more than anyone would like to and each and every time I beat myself up, look at everything Ive done or not done or could have done, I examine their food, their habits, my habits..I suppose trying to reassure myself I didnt do anything wrong but also because it is so hard to just let go..

Im not sure but maybe if we can find something or someone to blame it makes the pain easier?

Dont let this take over, take time grieve and let the happy memories be your main focus.

 

[ninjasteve]

Thanks everyone for the replies.. obviously it's been difficult for me...I am getting better though ...I don't need counseling though..thanks for the suggestion. I'm just trying to get some answers as to what it could have been..again I know without an autopsy I won't know..and I know she lived a good longer life. And she had some underlying health issues. You're right..def could have been her time even if the meds were never given. Just seems like such a coincidence that after the second dose she dies 12 hours later. I would think if it was an allergic reaction it would have happened sooner? Then again she was also on CBD and I did read it can interact with NSAIDs not in a deadly way but how they metabolize medications..something with their P something enzymes..again I know it's the what ifs etc..just something I wonder that's all. Like I said I was reluctant for all that time to even give her NSAIDs and then as I saw her getting worse with her mobility I said it's not fair to rob her of a good quality of life if something like that can help her. So then I give to her and she dies..who wouldn't think maybe it was the meds..I read an online article from an actual vet who gave her dog just ONE dose of rimadyl and it had a stroke..read two other instances ..one with a sheltie who had an enlarged heart for a while..lady gave her half a dose of metacam from a tooth surgery it had..was acting fine..decided to give the other half two hours later and shortly after it passed out and died. Another article was of a 9 year old retriever..something was weird with its kidneys they thought.. was at vets..got better and apparently they found arthritis in it's spine..gave metacam and it died within yup two doses.. autopsy revealed it died from severe congestion and pulmonary edema. So it is concerning..I'm just trying to get an idea if anyone else has ever experienced or heard of anything like this. I know nothing will change a thing and she is gone..but it's for my own peace of mind. Would be nice if there are any vets on here who wanted to chime in and as I said I do have her summary and xray image I can send etc. Thanks again for the condolences and replies. Truly appreciate it!

 

[ninjasteve]

PS...what about amantadine?? Anyone use it out there with no issues at all? Hard to find any negative reviews out there..maybe because it's not used alot etc.

 

[ninjasteve]

Are there any vets on here though? just curious there thoughts on what i wrote, maybe im just beating a dead horse ... i am def not blaming anyone for what happened with Maia, but just wondering like i said if the meds may have been to blame or possibly partial blame. Just very odd how things went down...Curious Mad Murphy, what happened to Benny though? you said in like 5 days he died? but was completely normal up to then? and thank you LMMB for the poem.. was very nice.

 

[JoanneF]

There is a member who said he was a vet but he only came on a few times and I'm sorry I don't remember his user name. He posted about parvovirus if you want to do a search. And of course we have no way of knowing if he actually was a vet.

 

[ninjasteve]

Thank you Joanne...I appreciate it.. im sure i wont have any luck trying to find them but thanks Like I said im sure im beating a dead horse anyhow. Just disappointing when one cardiologist looks at the xray and says it looks like there is some heart enlargement but then another one says he sees no enlargement. and her regular vet looks at it and says he seen alot bigger etc, so just doesnt seem as if the heart was really to blame. i mean in the end it stopped of course, but the edema in her lungs was very significant. She had no fluid at all around her lungs or around her heart. which again leads me to wonder if it was medicine induced possibly. the ER Dr said that night that her heart looked bigger than normal... and then again they did a fast bedside ultrasound on her and it did say her heart walls looked really thick and not contracting well.. unfortunately i could not get that image because it was one and done view thing right then and there. i know things happen and she was older and lived a good life but it does help me cope if i have some expert opinions or even from others who may have went through something similiar etc.. i kind of wish i had a necropsy done.. although i read those can be inconclusive as well. Thanks for the prompt reply!!

 

[Laco]

I fully understand your wanting to know details of her death, and I would likely be feeling exactly the same, if I were in your place. About all I have to offer, is she was almost 15, which is a good long life for any dog. I'm completely with you about not wanting to short her any quality days of life, but she shouldn't have to suffer to achieve the occasional good day. Ours will be twelve in January, and we love her dearly and would and have done everything for her. She has pancreatitis, a neurological autoimmune disorder, now in remission, and now as of this past week also has been suffering with colitis, on medication and seemly recovering, as of now. Believe me, I understand how completely attached we become to our beloved fur babies, and when ours, time is up and she does pass, we will be completely and totally devastated and likely unable to function for who knows how long. Just watching her do anything, makes us feel good, and when she is feeling really well, her crazy antics keep us laughing. She is so much a part of our family, well, I know you know the feeling. I guess I'm saying cherish the great memories you have of her, but life does go on. I hope when the time comes we are able to do the same. Best to you.

 

[ninjasteve]

Thank you so much for the kind words and i get it trust me.. a friend of mine has to put his dog down in June... was only six and half years old, had hermangiosarcoma... just heart breaking.. and i sit here and say well Maia lived to be more than double that and there alot of dogs who dont get to live as long. Just stinks when you dont have the answers you yearn for. I was all happy and hopeful that i finally went the NSAID route, as i was nervous because of her cushings and health, and i said to myself its not fair to rob her of a quality of life she could have.. and then two doses in and she passes away. Really hope and pray for all my worth that it did not induce anything and it just was her time and it was her heart and or an embolism etc.. but i will never know that answer for sure. I do cherish the memories of her, we had many .. the smells i still smell of her and looking over at her favorite end stand she used to sleep under or the landing of the stairs she always loved to sit on. just feels so lonely and the emptiness i feel gets overwhelming at times. i know in more time things will heal more, but it has only been just under 3 weeks... and she was in my life for 14 years. I feel your pain as well, when she was still with me, she was declining,i could see it and it scared me when that day may come, sadly it came alot sooner than i had anticipated...thanks again for reaching out and i wish you the best with yours!!

 

[ninjasteve]

forgot to mention , my previous dog, another beagle, Abby, had epilepsy.. had cluster seizures one night back in 2005.. and by the time we could get her to a vet, she was basically blind, and breathing pretty poorly. The vet said her prognosis did not look good, but we could take her home and see how she does... and i did... for the weekend she did nothing but go potty on herself, lay in a corner, and wouldnt really eat or barely drank.. i knew it was the end for her .. i took her back that monday and had to make the most difficult decision ever. she was 10. so the saving grace of it all is Maia did go on her own... doesnt make it alot easier, but maybe just a tad of relief i didnt have to make that call.