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Dog keeps scratching, but skin seems fine? (and its not fleas)

62K views 32 replies 12 participants last post by  defiantlysub 
#1 ·
Please read everything before giving advice^^ (sorry this is so long, just wanted to make sure to include all details and such)


My Nova Scotia Duck tolling retriever, 11 months old, keeps scratching! For the last month he’s been constantly itchy to no end!


He has persistent itching and is constantly scratching and biting his fur. The areas he’s most scratching in are: genital area (here is where he scratches most intensely, but I looked hard and couldn’t find anything out of the ordinary, his skin is fine with no dirt, redness, swelling or nothing, even after intense biting in the area), base of tail, around back legs, and neck.
Sounds like fleas right? But nope, that doesn’t seem to be it. :p
He’s actually showed these symptoms before. After we got him at 10 weeks, he began scratching violently and my dad thought he might have mange or something. I thought it was fleas and bought some “Hartz” flea meds and put it on him. Within a day he was perfectly fine with no scratching. At 6 months the same thing happened. Randomly started with intense persistent itching. I put Hartz flea med on him again and within a day he was fine. (yeah, I’m not being too consistent with flea meds on him..)


And now, about a month ago, it happened AGAIN. Intense scratching and itching that seems to come out of know where. I thought “it’s probably just those fleas again.” This time however, I decided to buy “Pet Armor” flea meds since it is supposedly just like frontline, a very good brand. I got a sample pack and tried it out. It seemed to relieve the itching for about an hour, but then it came back as strong as it was. I decided to use some “Adams” flea spray (which always worked well on my other dogs and cats). I put a lot on him and it helped for about 30 minutes but then he was once again scratching. I then decided to use a flea dip-like shampoo on him that ALWAYS worked on all my dogs I’ve ever had. It helped for about an hour or so and then he was back to scratching. I also tried “anti-itch spray for dogs” on his genital area and it seemed to help for a little while (like an hour).

I consulted my vet who said it might be allergies and that I should give him some dog allergy meds. I did so and it didn’t seem to help at all. I waited out the month and decided to try the Hartz brand of flea meds again. I put it on a few days back with hope it would work and so far it hasn’t helped a bit.

To make things weirder, my other dog and 2 cats are having NO SYMPTOMS at all! Even though they sleep in the same room as my toller, are always in contact with him, and are NOT on flea prevention, they are just fine! No scratching or fleas. Plus I keep the house vacuumed and clean often and have treated the house with flea killing spray. I’ve checked his fur and skin all over and can’t find any flea dirt, fleas, redness, scaling, swelling, bumps, scabs, NOTHING! His skin/fur seems fine!

So why could he be scratching so much? Any ideas? Here are some trends I’ve noticed if it helps…


An inside allergy?
He seems to be the itchiest indoors. When I take him out on walks, to the park, or to his weekly training class, he seems to scratch a lot less, if at all.

Boredom induced?
I’m starting to think that some of the scratching might be induced by boredom. When indoors, if I have him training or doing something that’s fun to him, he’ll scratch a lot less. If I don’t do anything with him and he’s just lying around on the carpet (we have carpet all over the house btw), he’ll scratch a lot. But then again, this might be normal lol

Food allergy?
He is a VERY picky eater so we have been swapping food brands these last few months to try to find something he likes (that’s also healthy for him). The food he seems to like best is the food I feed my other dog “Purina One: small dog formula.” I tried other Purina One varieties but he only likes the ‘small dog formula’ for some reason. The latest food I’ve been transitioning him to Blue Buffalo Wellness formula for puppies, and he seems to like it so far so maybe I might stay on this brand, if not I’ll go back to Purina One since it’s the only thing he’ll eat. Any ideas on this? (What ingredients might cause skin allergies?)

Thanks for any help, I am planning on taking him back to the vet soon. But I was wondering what you guys might think it is? Or anything that could give him some relief?
 
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#3 ·
The haphazard use of flea products, especially ones that may cause harm to your pet, does not rule out flea allergies. Judicious use of a good product like Frontline for at least 3-4 consecutive months with appropriate flea control on the other pets and good house cleaning will do that.

Allergens in the food tend to be the protein source-- most often chicken or beef since those are the most common protein sources in food. Doing a STRICT food trial where you pick a food with a protein source the dog has never had before (like duck, salmon or venison) and feeding the dog food ONLY (no treats, table scraps etc) for 4-6 weeks) may help determine if its food related. If you cheat even once during the trial, it's useless.

Could be an allergy to what you use to clean in the house, dust etc. try cleaning more often and use hypoallergenic detergent to clean anything the dog sleeps on.

Can be environmental allergens in which cause you can try antihistamines or find a vet dermatologist to consider skin testing (your dog is a bit young for this testing at the moment).

So please stop the Hartz products and drenching your dog in flea spray. Use something reputable consistently. Bathe the dog at least weekly or twice a week in an anti-itch shampoo. Consider trying a food trial and different antihistamines.
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#4 ·
The haphazard use of flea products, especially ones that may cause harm to your pet, does not rule out flea allergies. Judicious use of a good product like Frontline for at least 3-4 consecutive months with appropriate flea control on the other pets and good house cleaning will do that.
It might of sounded like I ruled out fleas, but I really don't. I forgot to put in my original post the possibilities of a flea allergy, but I find it strange that the flea meds (hartz, spray, and shampoo) that always worked with him isn't working now. I guess its sort of my fault that I'm not consistent, but how come the other two times it worked fast and was durable? My other pets don't seem to have fleas and are not on flea preventive.

I also haven't used anything new in house cleaning; the products I use are already hypoallergenic because several people in my family suffer from allergies a lot.

As for the food, he has always been fed chicken flavor since that is his favorite. My mom always discourages other flavors like duck, salmon, and deer because its "bad and will ruin his stomach and make him sick" or something like that. >.> I personally wouldn't mind switching to a different flavor and don't think it'll make him sick.

Anyways, is it strange that he out of nowhere developed an allergy to something he's always ate/been around?
(sorry if this is a dumb question, I've haven't had a dog with allergy problems)
 
#5 · (Edited)
Allergies develop over time so no, it's not a strange thing or silly question at all. Environmental allergies would be weird at this age since this is the first "spring season" and therefore less likely.

If an animal has a flea allergy, a single bite can set them off. So, the other animals don't have to have a flea infestation (and neither does the dog reacting) to have a reaction. Just the bite can do it.

Food may be your answer here since the protein is always the same. Some animals are allergic to the dairy or grains in the food but its not as common. You should look into Natural Balance Limited Ingredient diets- the duck or venison. No, it's not going to ruin the stomach :) yes, some animals are more sensitive to foods than others but there is nothing specific about duck or venison that is particularly bad.
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#6 ·
if it is a flea ALLERGY, try comfortis. My FIL's dog was flea allergic and the vet said comfortis was the only one that prevented flea bites instead of just killing fleas that bit. He got on comfortis from his regular flea med and he was fine. A dog just can't seem to leave themselves alone if they get an itch so a small bit of allergen or 1 flea bite can start a bad chain reaction.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Thanks for the advice everyone :)

UPDATE:
I'm sure its fleas now (can't edit my thread title for whatever reason)
Ever since I put the Hartz flew med, my dogs scratching habits have changed. He no longer is itchy in his back/tail/underside, but is now scratching more around his neck/shoulders/front leg area, as if the fleas moved from one side to the other. And after searching through his fur, I have found a few live fleas.

So I have a few questions:

1) How did my dog randomly get infested with fleas? (this intense scracthing he has now came on really randomly and out of no where.) Or how do I know if he has a flea allergy?

3) How come he is infested with fleas, despite being on several flea meds, and my other pets, who have not been on flea prevention for like a year, are not being affected at all?

4) How come the flea meds didn't work in the least bit when they always did before? (or if a flea allergy is involved, maybe it eliminated most of the fleas but the few that remained bit and start the allergic reaction?)

5) So what do I do now? I can't add another topical med since I just put one on. Do I go have him flea dipped at the groomers/vets?


Sorry for all the questions^^ Just want to know how to get rid of his fleas and see if he does have a flea allergy.
 
#8 ·
Well, you are using terrible flea medication and using it inconsistently do its no surprise to me that there are fleas.

Like I already said: use a respectable product like Frontline Plus, Advantix or Advantage consistently on ALL of the pets at least for 3 consecutive months. I would bathe them very thoroughly to get any dead fleas off as well as the remnants of the garbage topicals you have been using.

Take a flea collar (any brand) and put it in the bag or canister of your vacuum. Vacuum everything thoroughly. Wash any hard surfaces. Launder anything the animals sleep on.

Why one dog has fleas and the other animals don't I can't say-- except that I suspect that they all do and you're missing them.

You're also not going to know if there is an allergic component... But this just means you'll need to have them on a good product consistently.
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#11 ·
Update: scratching took turn for worse...

Around may 18 I gave him a good bath with oatmeal shampoo which seemed to help a bit. A couple days later I put frontline on him and it didn't seem to help much, in fact his scratching got worse but soon went back to "average". I've treated my other pets and have been vacuuming frequently with the flea collar in the vacuum and using flea powder. I gave him another a bath a couple Weeks ago and this time it didn't help at all. I put frontline on him again a couple days early to see if it would help his itching which was getting worse. It actually made his itching a lot worse and yesterday I checked his under side since he was scratching there a lot and found about 10 hot spots that had just developed. Most are around his stomach and private parts with a few on his chest and arm pits. I had some left over hot spot treatment from the vet that been given to one of my previous dog and I have been applying it to his hot spots twice daily. It really has helped his itching and soothed him. Although those spots are getting better, he's now scratching in other areas and I'm guessing hot spots are now developing all over his body, although I've checked but don't really see any redness or anything out of the ordinary, his skin looks fine but it's hard to tell with all the thick fur. He has had no hair loss or pus. Just a note, he has been blowing his coat for the last month (this is his first time) and thus has been shedding a lot. But he hasn't had any hair loss around the areas of the spots.

What might be causing the hot spots? I don't think it's fleas because I haven't seen a flea on him since my last post here and I haven't seen any flea dirt, I've even done the wet paper towel test and nothing came up. And wouldn't the frontline have helped if it was fleas?

Thanks for any input, I appreciate it :)
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#13 ·
I've checked where we added the frontline at the base of the neck and the skin seems fine. He's actually not scratching there much. I haven't really heard or seen much of comfortis but I'll look into it.

He's scratching most at his legs, arm pits, private parts, rib area and tail area...Yeah, kind of everywhere.
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#15 ·
Sounds like a reaction to the Frontline. I had something similar happen when I used Biospot.

I'd have an allergy test done on him to find out what's going on.

He could be sensitive to a couple of things, fleas, the flea preventive, environmental, or food.
 
#16 ·
Was hoping molly would respond because she was so helpful last time but anyways

Update: more bad news: other pets now showing same symptoms.. :/

The hot spots i've been treating are responding well and most are almost all healed up...but unfortunately, he is still very itchy and new hot spots are forming in the new areas he's scratching and biting at, where there is a lot of fur :/ thus it is going to be harder to put med on... I've given him zyertec because I was told it might be extreme allergies, but it did nothing on him for the first 5 hours, but after that I did notice a decrease in scratching.

Since i've discovered his hot spots a few days back i've noticed that my other dog and two cats (who up to now have had no symptoms whatsoever) are now beginning to scratch and itch. Once again I check thier fur but find no abnormality or fleas/flea dirt (they are on frontline too).

Did my dog infect them with some skin disease? :( since he began itching 2 months back he has been in very close contact with them but they haven't started scratching until now. I'm really frustrated with all this....the last thing I need are four very itchy sick pets. Is there any thing I can do to keep the "disease" from progressing on my other pets?
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#17 ·
You are hoping for Holly, not Molly to reply. She is a veterinarian. I'm sure she will check for new posts at her next available opportunity.

I read back through this thread, and it hit me again as it did the first time I read your June 19th post. You said that you were using flea powder. What are you using flea powder on? Surely not the pets who have all been treated with Frontline, right? I would think that combining flea powder and Frontline on a pet would cause an allergic reaction, which is starting to sound like hives to me.

If you have put the flea powder on the pets, give them all a bath. The Frontline will stay on, as it states on the package.

Get all of them on Benadryl which will help with the itching and with the inflammation. Keep dosing the Benadryl until the 'hives' or 'hotspots' or whatever they are clear up. Do not give them Zyrtec and Benadryl. Just the Benadryl.

I don't know the dose for the Benadryl or how much time between doses. You could Google it or search this site.

I am not a vet, so if you have any doubts about what I have posted, please check with your vet before following through with my advice. You could even call an emergency vet clinic, if there are any in your area, to speak to a vet. Or call your vet's after hour service. They can get the vet on call to call you back.

I hope Holly responds soon, as I know you must feel desperate to help your pets, and to figure out what is going on and how to stop it.
 
#18 ·
You are hoping for Holly, not Molly to reply. She is a veterinarian. I'm sure she will check for new posts at her next available opportunity.

I read back through this thread, and it hit me again as it did the first time I read your June 19th post. You said that you were using flea powder. What are you using flea powder on? Surely not the pets who have all been treated with Frontline, right? I would think that combining flea powder and Frontline on a pet would cause an allergic reaction, which is starting to sound like hives to me.

If you have put the flea powder on the pets, give them all a bath. The Frontline will stay on, as it states on the package.

Get all of them on Benadryl which will help with the itching and with the inflammation. Keep dosing the Benadryl until the 'hives' or 'hotspots' or whatever they are clear up. Do not give them Zyrtec and Benadryl. Just the Benadryl.

I don't know the dose for the Benadryl or how much time between doses. You could Google it or search this site.

.
Whoops, yeah I meant holly xP

No, I put flea powder on the carpets not the pets, I stated that after I said that I vacuumed and I was implying that I put it on the carpet before vaccuuming.

I was giving my dogs benadryl but it wasn't doing anything for them so I was told to try zyertec since it is stronger. Although, i've only given zyertec to my original sick dog, not my other pets yet.

I've given both my dogs baths with oatmeal and aloe shampoo. It actually didn't help my other dog(the one that has just started showing symptoms) but it seemed to help my already sick one. (?) I haven't given my cats baths for a while.

I decided that I'm going to take my original itchy dog to the vet and see if we can figure something out and see if it's an allergic reaction or a contagious skin disease. hopefully it's nothing serious and I won't have to take all my other pets to the vet, I'm already very low on funds and have tons of bills coming up + house rent.
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#21 ·
I don't think he has a skin disease, but just wanted to ask if there'd been any exposure. Since there hasn't been, I think you can rule that out. I think all of your pets, since you did say that the other ones are scratching and also having the red spots, are having an allergic reaction to something.

Of course, I could be dead wrong. Please let us know what the vet says on Monday. Be sure to tell him everything you've told us on this thread, as he needs to see the full picture to help with a diagnosis.
 
#23 · (Edited)
My other pets do not have hot spots or rashes, I said that they were just scratching more and that thier skin was fine, like how my original dog started. Nothing has changed in the last week so I don't think they have an allergic reaction.

@little runt
I don't think the hot spots were an allergic reaction to the frontline (since this is his second month on it and the first time nothing happened), but well see what the vet says.

Right now my dog is on beef and rice purina one food. He's on this because he's a VERY picky eater and it's the only food he'll eat. I heard beef is a common food allergy so I'm going to try to switch him onto the lamb and rice variety to see if it helps. Hopefully he'll like it.

I'll be sure to tell the vet everything and post an update here. ;)
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#22 ·
I have had a similar situation with my dog. He is a shih-poo. He has always scratched his ears since I have had him but once he turned a year old and he is a year and a half now, his scratching has intensified. I have been through all the same things like changing his food, eliminating treats, buying products for cleaning with no scents, etc. etc. I also have been doing alot of research on what could be causing this itch because his skin is perfect otherwise with no rash, etc. etc.

I have found out that of course the protein source in the food could be a problem and that chicken is one of the most common protein sources that dogs would be allergic to as well as others. The vet put him on a hypo-allergy food that is a soy protein. After his itching continued, I started researching the ingredients in these fods. One thing I found is that it had 3 ingredients from his last food are in this new food. I have now changed him to Purina DRM.

He had 2 1/2 weeks of totally not scratching. I couldn't believe it. Until........ I gave him his flea medication! He has been on both Revolution and Sentinel from the vet. He has scratched since I have had him and I have been giving him this flea medication faithfully every month. Because of the intense scratching I have had no alternative but to put him on steriods for a short time because his hair was thinning. I am pretty sure that this may be the culprit because I gave it to him at 4:00 p.m. and the intense scratching starting that night.

I will not be giving him any flea medication for awhile until I see how he makes out.

Has anyone else had any pets with reactions to flea medications?
 
#24 ·
Has anyone else had any pets with reactions to flea medications?
I find it to be the same way when I give my 2 small pups their monthly Comfortis pill. They seem to scratch more than ever for several days, but no hair loss occurs.

Also, we used Frontline on our Labrador Retriever once when she was a puppy. The spot of application actually turned into an awful sore that our vet had to attend to under sedation.

This week, one of my pups, Tucker, started having seizures after taking his monthly dose of Comfortis. You are not supposed to give Comfortis to a dog if it has ever had seizures, because one side-effect of Comfortis is seizures. Tucker will never again be able to take Comfortis, so we are switching him to Advantage ll.

Maybe someone else will come along with better information, but truly, you should start your own thread. That way Holly, who is a veterinarian and checks the Health Boards, will see your new thread and respond to it. With your post hidden, so-to-speak, inside this thread it may take longer to get a response.
 
#26 ·
Frontline has never worked for me. While using it very consistently, Mollie was still full of fleas. We switched to Trifexis and the fleas vanished.
 
#27 ·
Thank you for your feedback. I don't believe his hair loss had anything to do with the flea medication; I believe it was because he never stopped scratching. The problem when a dog continuously scratches is that if the skin is irritated and they scratch, the skin will stay irritated and therefore the pattern of scratching will continue. That is why I have him on a low dose of steriods right now prescribed by the vet to get the itching under control (which it has), and I don't plan to give him any flea medication to see how he makes out without it. Because he is a small dog that needs regular grooming, about every 4 to 5 weeks, if a flea presents itself, I will know.

If his scratching continues after this, I plan to change his food to a grain-free food.
 
#28 ·
Update: what the vet said...

So today I took my dog in to be checked out and see if this was an allergy or if it had gotten serious/contagious. The vet said he thought it was just environmental allergies because he has gotten many patients in with the same symptoms over the last few Weeks and the pollen and other outdoor allergy stuff has been at record highs lately. He also said he thought it could be that the frontline isn't working on him much and so the fleas could also be bothering him along with the outdoor allergies for he did find some proof of fleas on him. He didn't think he had a flea allergy though, but couldn't be sure. He said that the itching and hot spots were enough to have some antibiotics and so he gave us some antibiotic pills and a spray for treating the hot spots. He told me to try advantage or k9 advantix next time since the frontline hadn't been working well. he said to continue giving the zyertic since it seems to be helping, if even a little. He also said if his itching hadn't improved and if hot spots were still coming up after the course of antibiotics to bring him back for some steroids and further evaluation. Regarding my other pets, it's kind of complicated how he explained it, but he thought they only had fleas and they weren't scratching before because the flea cycle was being broken but now the flea eggs/larve have become adults and were bothering them. He told me to get them on advantage if it seemed the frontline was failing them too.

I'm so glad it wasn't contagious or dangerous and that it might just be a simple case of allergies and a few fleas, but I'll have to wait and see if he improves while on the antibiotics and if the hot spots continue.

Really don't want to put another topical on him so soon so I'll try advantage in a couple weeks or so, also the visit came out to be a little more than expected so now I'm really low on funds :/

Anyways,
thanks for all the replies you guys^^ means a lot
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#29 · (Edited)
Not quite an update but...

Advantage or Comfortis?

So I should be able to buy the flea med this coming week, but which should I try out? My dog's itching has gotten a lot better, but the little he is scratching is due to fleas for I have found a few since his vet visit. Now I was going to buy a single dose from the vet to see if it worked then later buy a pack, but which should I try out? A really long time ago, I tried advantage for my dogs and it worked excellent. But how does comfortis work? I've never tried a pill for flea prevention. Does it kill all life stages of the flea and how fast does it work and does it repel fleas all month? Was considering a pill since my dog has several shows coming up in a few Weeks and I would have to be bathing him often and I didn't want that to affect a topical like advantage.

Thanks for advice :)
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#31 ·
I would suggest taking him to your Vet, let them do a flea dip, and your Vet can decide if a steroid shot might be in order to provide relief from the intense itching. Then, as already suggested you have to consistently used a top flea med, this is no place to try to cut costs. Believe me your poor dog is absolutely miserable with the itching, and is counting on you to provide he the relief he needs and deserves.
 
#32 ·
Try feeding him food without soy in it. This can cause intensely itchy skin. Prednisone helps alleviate the itch but then watch the dog gain weight, or water. A friend's little dog was like this. She started reading labels and feeding more household food. It cleared up and dog was off prednisone within a month.
 
#33 ·
I was a feeder for over 234 dogs daily at the NSPCA I was trained to notice these type of symptoms. ... unfortunately vets don't follow the belief in the food allergies always. ... my opinion of your situation with your dog is this: food unfortunately is overlooked for the major irritants.... wheat soy and corn is your major ones. ... I suggest grain free food and it does not have to be expensive. ... remember to look at the ingredients 1st ingredient should NEVER be corn. .... I suggest looking into Fresh Pet Baked Grain Free : Freshpet Fresh Baked Grain-Free Chicken
Made with 100 percent fresh chicken
All natural with added vitamins and minerals
Made with fresh ingredients
Gently cooked to lock in nutrients
Made without chemical preservatives
Healthy dose of superfoods like spinach and cranberries
Doesn't include any rendered meals
Each recipe is cooked at lower temperatures, not over-processed, to retain essential nutrients
Find this recipe in the dry dog food aisle ... no here is the part many overlook. ... treats or wet food need to be grain free as well ... if your best friend is allergic the itching could be return with even a little amount you can find the food at Petsmart or even your local Walmart.... hope this helps
 
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