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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So not only is this horribly against forum rules, it's also horrible advice. This is a dog that has injured this person before. Do you really think force is the way to fix it? I'm pretty sure force is only going to escalate the situation.

Brexille's problem's are far beyond what anyone on this forum can help with over the internet. Recommending she get in a physical altercation with a dog that is not above landing teeth and latching on is not only unwise, it's unsafe.
So... Let me get this straight. First of all, you're probably assuming I'll be beating the dog with a stick, far from the truth.

There's one of three things going on here.
1. the problem is the dog.
2. Positive reinforcement isn't working on this particular dog and something else needs to be explored.
3. The application of the training techniques is incorrect. This is not unheard of in any of the training styles.

You decide to lambaste me for suggesting alternate routes - based on an assumption cause we're not allowed to suggest training techniques on this internet forum,..

But people suggest putting the dog down and nothing from admin? Are you serious? Can't get much more adverse than that.
 

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@jagger - the issue was NOT that you suggested a different training technique, it's that you specifically suggested force and 'being dominant'. This could get the OP hurt by this dog. She is working with a vet and a trainer who can see the issues in person.

Further discussion on this topic will take place on this thread, not on the original thread.
 

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Starting, I would never assume you'd be beating the dog with a stick. I do understand the difference between force and abuse. I also understand that a dog in this state may be escalated with the use of force, and considering the dog has injured the OP before, I would hate to suggest that, having never met the dog or handler and have to hear the OP was hurt worse. She/he is currently working with a trainer and a vet. If the trainer they are working with feels that force training will benefit this dog, then I am sure they will suggest it, but offering those suggestions on the internet where you have no idea anything about the dog or handler besides what you have been told is dangerous. Also, admins have been ok with the suggestions of euthanasia AFTER THE OP HAS CONSULTED WITH A TRAINER AND THE VET. We are realists that not every dog can be saved and, like humans, some dogs are just wired wrong and no level of training can save them from themselves. Once again we are not going to tell the OP to take our word only, we suggested that the OP speak with hired professionals and consult with many professional people for their opinions.

Once again, I know you have been told in the past, this is a positive reinforcement forum. We are strictly positive reinforcement. We did not make that rule, it was a rule that was established by our administrator. We are never going to suggest or condone force training. Seriously. Never. I think forceful training borders on abuse and does not benefit the dogs. I understand that everyone has their own opinion, and if your opinion is that you are ok with forceful training then, once again, this may not be the forum for you. I am well aware that many people have trained many dogs using force (I know someone who does. She has very well trained dogs. I still do not condone the way she trains [using shock collars and pinch collars]) We (the mods) have had this conversation with you many times and really it's not going to change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
having never met the dog or handler
There it is, nice and clear. Is it the dog - people don't know. Is it the owner - or is it incorrectly applied technique? But yet, people are still allowed to suggest the ultimate in abuse, the ultimate in force - blaming the dog and putting it down.

I believe that every dog is salvageable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So what is this forum about? Is it in support of dogs or people?

I stated clearly that I read all of her postings - and I have, many of them made me shake my head, as well as many of the responses to her. I don't expect the admin here to go and read them all, but there's a few things that you need to be aware of.

Here's what we do know about the OP.
- Bexielle is young, she's a teenager still living at home.
- She has no experience with dogs and is adamant about doing this on her own. She doesn't want help from her family.
- She has no experience with training - and it appears that this forum is the primary source of her knowledge.
- She got this dog as a puppy.
- She has been applying positive training incorrectly.
- She has been supported by the same pack on here telling her she's doing fine. And if you're not part of the pack, the choir so to speak...

Now, she's scared of her dog. Still doesn't want help from her family, still wants to go it alone.

Now the choir is blaming the dog, telling her that she did everything right, that it's not her fault - that it's the dogs fault, has to be genetics. And I'll be very surprised if she doesn't post in the next few months that she put the dog down. The dog is going to pay the ultimate price for many peoples failures - the OP's included.


I sincerely hope that people stop and thing. Dogforum.com may not be taking culpablility for what happens on here - but morally, you gotta admit, it's still wrong.


Now ignore all that and talk to me about force again.
I'm sure if a dog bit you unprovoked, you're not going to give it a pat on the head and a cookie.
 

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Ultimately what it comes down to imo is....

You may disagree with those suggesting euth. Not an issue as long as done in a civil manner.

But you may not recommend aversive training as per forum rules. If you were not recommending aversive methods then you need to do a better job about being clear about what you are suggesting to avoid this confusion, removed/edited posts, is having to talk to you about it, etc.

Shouldn't be an issue for you to voice your opinion that pts isn't in your opinion the answer or something that you feel should be on the table at the moment, while still respecting the forum rules.
 

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There it is, nice and clear. Is it the dog - people don't know. Is it the owner - or is it incorrectly applied technique? But yet, people are still allowed to suggest the ultimate in abuse, the ultimate in force - blaming the dog and putting it down.
People can volunteer their ideas, just like you can volunteer your opposition to euthanasia. But recommend averse training methods is against the forum guidelines. Plain and simple.

Also you may notice most of the people are suggesting she speak with professionals in person. Like arguments we have had in the past, this forum can not be a substitution of in person training (you've said you've seen the consequences of that). The forum is a great place to assist with training and support other like minded trainers. The forum is not a place to come to substitute a professional trainer. Which is why this forum and the moderators (a few who are professional trainers) always suggest people to pursue professional training.

I believe that every dog is salvageable.
I personally, having worked with a few dogs who were wired wrong, do not agree with you. But the joys of this forum are we are all entitled to have our own opinions.
 
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