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Discussion Starter #21
So I have e-mailed the breeder expressing my desire to spay around 12-15 months of age, I will keep you guys updated on how it goes. Thanks everyone! :)
 

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It's not the quality of the pups, it's the opposite actually, they want to keep you from competing with them and them not getting their cut.
What is the point of the mandatory spay anyway.

If a breeder doesn't think his or her pups are worth breeding what does that say about their confidence in the quality they're producing?
My husbands aunt is a breeder and she has spay/neuter contracts. Her contracts also say that the dog can be returned at any point, for any reason during their lifetime. One of the reasons she requires spay is that while she's happy to rehome her own dogs and or/retrain them she really dosn't want a pregnant dog or the puppies of a male's litter also coming back to her. Most responsible breeders are quite open to selling to another responsible breeder to increase the diversity in bloodlines, etc. I assure you, the last thing she cares about as a responsible breeder is someone who whelps a litter of carefully bread puppies for sale. She wants to ensure her dogs don't end up as backyard bread, puppy mill fodder or otherwise abused for their reproductive capability.
 

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My husbands aunt is a breeder and she has spay/neuter contracts. Her contracts also say that the dog can be returned at any point, for any reason during their lifetime. One of the reasons she requires spay is that while she's happy to rehome her own dogs and or/retrain them she really dosn't want a pregnant dog or the puppies of a male's litter also coming back to her. Most responsible breeders are quite open to selling to another responsible breeder to increase the diversity in bloodlines, etc. I assure you, the last thing she cares about as a responsible breeder is someone who whelps a litter of carefully bread puppies for sale. She wants to ensure her dogs don't end up as backyard bread, puppy mill fodder or otherwise abused for their reproductive capability.
And this Aunt takes no compensation from the other reputable breeder when they breed this pup ? Backyard breeders could careless about Registration as they just falsify the documents, and by the time the new owner figures it out they have fallen in love with their pup,because it's somewhere between 6 months and a year old and wouldn't think about returning it .
More importantly to the topic, and I'm not saying adult spaying is better, but if you think it is, do the potential health benefits to the dog not outweigh a predominantly useless piece of paper, which serves no real purpose to the dog whatsoever?
 

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@Shandula correct me if I'm wrong but your pup is a female correct ? I assume this because the post does read spay, but I've noticed the term thrown around quite liberally lately lol, anyway, just keep in mind it's hard to put a time line on females, months really don't count, quality heats count. Your target should be a month after the pups second heat.
 

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What is the point of the mandatory spay anyway.

If a breeder doesn't think his or her pups are worth breeding what does that say about their confidence in the quality they're producing?
Typically, it isn't about low quality pups. They don't want people breeding willy nilly and ruining the reputation of the lines.
 

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@Shawsea - Haha yes, she's a lady! I know, I try to stick with "Spay" for females, "Castration" for males, and "Neuter" for either. :p
 

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And this Aunt takes no compensation from the other reputable breeder when they breed this pup ? Backyard breeders could careless about Registration as they just falsify the documents, and by the time the new owner figures it out they have fallen in love with their pup,because it's somewhere between 6 months and a year old and wouldn't think about returning it .
More importantly to the topic, and I'm not saying adult spaying is better, but if you think it is, do the potential health benefits to the dog not outweigh a predominantly useless piece of paper, which serves no real purpose to the dog whatsoever?
For another breeder, it's still a purchase, usually one that's more expensive...or she will take the dog in trade or trade for stud services. I didn't say she gives a pup away for free, only that she's happy to let a pup be bread in responsible hands. She retires her bitches relatively young so she is always interested in genetic diversity.

She's been doing this for years and it is very unfortunate but yes, people DO fall in love with a dog, plan to backyard breed, the dog gets pregnant in it's first heat and they'd rather dump the dog than deal with a litter of "worthless" mutts. It's sick, but it does happen.

My point was that for her spay/neuter contracts are about preventing backyard breeders to the best of her ability as a responsible breeder interested in preserving the breed's health and standards.

I'm not sure when her contracts indicate spay, but that they do. I think she gives a bit more time, usually about 9 months old for small dogs (pug size) or a full year from getting the dog large dogs--making the dog about 14mo. My husband's family has enjoyed several retired breeders over the years.

Withholding paperwork is just another way to get this done. Best way? Maybe not, but it can work.

But people, in general, are dumb. They fall for backyard breeders and puppy-mill dogs. I can't speak for the purchasing end, I can only speak to what responsible breeders try to do to prevent their puppies from becoming backyard and puppy-mill bitches and studs.

To me, the relevance of this to the thread is that it's not about a "big mean breeder" who wants to cut everyone else from breeding dogs but about breeders who use legal tools to prevent unwanted litters. Most responsible breeders are very committed to preventing unwanted pets, and sometimes that may mean an early spay/neuter because many owners are uninformed or lazy when it comes to their pet dog's sexual health--but they are still good owners overall.
 

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To me, the relevance of this to the thread is that it's not about a "big mean breeder" who wants to cut everyone else from breeding dogs but about breeders who use legal tools to prevent unwanted litters. Most responsible breeders are very committed to preventing unwanted pets, and sometimes that may mean an early spay/neuter because many owners are uninformed or lazy when it comes to their pet dog's sexual health--but they are still good owners overall.
I agree - my breeder is a really lovely woman, and she clearly cares a lot about each of her dogs. I imagine being a breeder comes with its fair-share of heartaches, given that the "average" dog owner is fairly uninformed (just today there was a guy at the park who said "Ah yeah she's being weird because she's in heat. *facepalm*). I'm hoping that she will appreciate my candid e-mail and appreciate that I've contacted her first, instead of just doing it anyway.
 

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I agree - my breeder is a really lovely woman, and she clearly cares a lot about each of her dogs. I imagine being a breeder comes with its fair-share of heartaches, given that the "average" dog owner is fairly uninformed (just today there was a guy at the park who said "Ah yeah she's being weird because she's in heat. *facepalm*). I'm hoping that she will appreciate my candid e-mail and appreciate that I've contacted her first, instead of just doing it anyway.
I know my aunt would. She likes when one of "her puppies" are entered into a contest or becomes a beloved member of a family and she gets a cute picture with the dog and children equally mud covered. Those moments make some of the sleepless nights whelping all worth it. She really cares.

I think she'd be nervous that the dog would be sent through 2 heats before spay, but a clear well thought out plan about dog care--including excercize--and back up care should the owner be incapable of caring for the dog during heat would go a long way to easing her mind. I doubt she'd refuse a well thought out "this is what's really best for my dog and this is why I can carry it out" request.
 

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i really hope she lets it be another 4-6 months before you do. besides puppyhood goes so so fast 6 months time will fly by with a pup you really just want to concentrate on loving the pup and making most of puppy hood
 

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What is the point of the mandatory spay anyway.

If a breeder doesn't think his or her pups are worth breeding what does that say about their confidence in the quality they're producing?
Responsible breeders usually like to have some say in who their bitches are bred to. Sometimes pet owners don't know much about pedigrees or good breeding practices. Not saying that's the case here. I don't see anything wrong with a breeder requiring a dog sold as a pet to be spayed or neutered. Maybe the breeder didn't want certain traits passed on. Those traits may be harmless and meaningless to the average pet owner but important to a breeder. Not saying that is this breeders motivation but just saying that it's not always black and white.
 

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@seashoreduck please don't think I'm judging your aunt, shes probably just doing it because everyone else does.
I get it, I just think the judgment shouldn't be so harsh. She's doing it because the small chance that it harms the dog psychologically is much less than the chance that the dog goes into heat, accidentally gets out, and gets pregnant far, far too young. Most people, again even really responsible owners, don't understand the crazy powers of a dog in heat. Many don't have the resources to handle a dog in heat. I would hate to forbid a dog to go to a responsible owner simply because they didn't want to deal with heat. In my view it should be self-selecting responsible owners who choose to do things a different way, not everyone given the chance. I guess I don't trust people that much.
 

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@seashoreduck , delayed spaying has very little to do with the mental well being, it's mostly concerning joint health, especially in high risk breeds, and sport/work dogs.
 

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I was sent this wonderful article from my breeder when I was asking her about when I should spay Aayla.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

I have decided to spay Aayla after a year per my breeders request. She said (as an aussie judge) that she could physically tell the differences between dogs altered too early and those that waited. For health and soundness reasons she requested I wait.
 

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Hey everyone! So the breeder e-mailed me back today and let me know that she is fine with waiting to spay, and was very excited about the fact we have dog sport plans. She basically said send the papers along when you get it done, and she'll send us the AKC papers. Easy peasy, good communication is clearly key. :)
 

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thats fantastic news! bit crazy how the contract says spay at 6 months though!
 
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