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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone!

So, forever ago we made Heidi's appointment for her spay, and it is this Monday. However, I've been doing some thinking and chatting with local agility and sport people, and I'm wondering if it would be better off to delay her spay. I WILL be getting her spayed at some point, I just am growing increasingly uncomfortable with spaying her as early as this. I've also been doing some research, and there seems to be a decent amount of support for waiting to spay, particularly for sport dogs, which is what she will be.
Now, I have a signed contract with the breeder that says I will spay the puppy "Within 6 months of taking possession" (which is this month) or failure to do so "will result in the non-issue of the registration papers".
Now, I have zero plans of ever showing any of my dogs, so I don't actually care about the registration papers. I've half a mind to just e-mail the breeder and let her know that I'm going to post-pone, but at the same time, she really does not seem to care that I have one of her puppies. (Looking back, both of my breeders were ethical, and I have great dogs, but I have zero relationships with either of them).
So, I guess the end of this little post is:
a) Am I making a good decision by choosing to wait? I was hoping to wait until at least a year.
b) Should I wait until her first heat? Or what about 2 years?
c) Should I e-mail the breeder or just forfeit the papers and not say anything?

Thanks everyone! Anyone with advice is greatly encouraged to share.
 

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It's a really personal decision. You do have a contract, BUT she is your dog and you have to do what you feel is in her best interest/health. It's a little different with my girl because giant breeds shouldn't be spayed until the are over a year old. But I feel waiting as long as possible is best. I'll be getting Freyja spayed in the next month or so, trying to get it done before her next heat otherwise I'd wait till she was 14-16 months old. I personally wouldn't spay before a year old with most dogs. I want the dogs to be fully grown before taking those hormones away from them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It's a really personal decision. You do have a contract, BUT she is your dog and you have to do what you feel is in her best interest/health. It's a little different with my girl because giant breeds shouldn't be spayed until the are over a year old. But I feel waiting as long as possible is best. I'll be getting Freyja spayed in the next month or so, trying to get it done before her next heat otherwise I'd wait till she was 14-16 months old. I personally wouldn't spay before a year old with most dogs. I want the dogs to be fully grown before taking those hormones away from them.
Thank you! The contract essentially states that if we don't, we just can't have her AKC papers, which doesn't really stress me out, but I'm surprised she hasn't contact me to ask about it. She just seems so disinterested. Ugh, I don't know.
 

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@cbarkerb724 did a OSS with Lila and I am pretty sure is happy with the results.

The only thing you may want to consider on not having her registration is if you plan on showing AKC you will need her registration. Now you could always go around the breeder and get her registered PAL and still show, but I am pretty sure they consider that unethical.

Another thing to think about would be Levi. Is he neutered? If he is not neutered you will have to keep on top of them during their heats, which will probably mean separating them, and I know that might be stressful for both of them since they love each other so much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
@Gnostic_Dog - Hm, that's a good thought. I think the closest vet that does an OSS is two hours away, which would be inconvenient but not horrible.
@jclark343 - Levi is neutered, but still shows a little interest in females when in heat, so I think he might bug her, but I don't really know. I never thought about her not being able to do agility.

Ugh, I'm struggling.
 
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Check to see what type of trials happen around you. Sometimes AKC isn't as common in an area. Also, when you are planning to show her, if her heat happens to fall on a trial day you may be required to pull her from a trial. Too much of a risk with so many intact dogs in a small area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Check to see what type of trials happen around you. Sometimes AKC isn't as common in an area. Also, when you are planning to show her, if her heat happens to fall on a trial day you may be required to pull her from a trial. Too much of a risk with so many intact dogs in a small area.
I did know about not being able to compete while she is heat, which is fair. Poor dogs. I wonder if my breeder would be okay with an OSS...
 
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Your breeder might be willing to consider pushing back the spay, too, if you explain your reasoning. I think their biggest concern is that the dogs do indeed get spayed and there are no accidents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@Kwenami - I think I will e-mail her and just explain that I would really prefer to wait for health purposes and that she WILL 100% be spayed, just not right now. If she says yes, great, if she says no, I don't know what I'll do. I feel it is in her best interest to wait, but I don't want to be shady and register her as a PAL or whatever without her knowledge.
 
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Here's my two cents...

1) It is your decision. This wasn't something I realized until fairly recently but spaying is a very personal decision and varies based on individual scenarios.

2) I 100% think you should let the breeder know. My best guess is that they try to set a reasonable timeline but based on your (very reasonable) logic, I think they would make the exception. I can't understand why they wouldn't. Then you at least have the papers if you ever do need them. After all, you paid for a papered dog, right?

3) OSS is certainly a possibility. @cbarkerb724 isn't around too much but she may pop in if she sees this post. You could always PM her if you have questions. She's super nice and I'm sure she'd answer your questions :)

At the end of the day, you need to do what's best for your situation.
 

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@Kwenami - I think I will e-mail her and just explain that I would really prefer to wait for health purposes and that she WILL 100% be spayed, just not right now. If she says yes, great, if she says no, I don't know what I'll do. I feel it is in her best interest to wait, but I don't want to be shady and register her as a PAL or whatever without her knowledge.
If she says no, do what you feel is best for your dog. The breeder has a responsibility to the dogs she breeds but if you're proceeding responsibly then that's what matters to the rest of the world.

BTW I got Koda around 1.5 years intact, and within the month she went into her second heat. She did fine, it wasn't even very messy (thank god). She was spayed within the next 3 months after that and is doing great. I found she got a tad moody at the end of her heat and we stayed indoors but if things were kept mellow she did alright. If I got a second dog right now in that age that isn't already done I'd probably wait until sometimes between 1-2 years to spay/neuter as well, or look more into OSS.

Btw mixed breeds can compete in obedience, rally-o, and agility, so its not the end of the world though it would be nice to have her papers.
 

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I'm not sure that contract is legal. I'm not a lawyer but I bet you could sue for those papers, the dog belongs to you after all, not the breeder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm not sure that contract is legal. I'm not a lawyer but I bet you could sue for those papers, the dog belongs to you after all, not the breeder.
Hm, I wonder about that.
 

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Hm, I wonder about that.
Ask for a laywer to go over it for you and take a good look at it for you? i think its unreasonable to spay within 6 months of getting the dog(esp a medium/large breed like border collie)for a small dog thats alright to spay at 6 months but a border collie it does seem too soon. BUT i did spay charlie too soon as well and we spayed rocky very young(dont remember how old he was when got spayed though) this was in the days we werent aware of the growth plates etc
 

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Maybe @crock would be able to help. She has dog knowledge and law knowledge. Maybe she has dog law knowledge!
 
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I'll give you my honest opinion in 10 years lol, but I only comment, and not to derail the thread, but in regards to the contract. have you contacted your breeder? I'm guessing like the majority of (x)KC breeders, this contract is based solely on competition, if you explain you have zero intention of breeding and it is solely based on the welfare of your dog they will probably concede. If not who cares, registration papers are, well I'll let you fill in my Kennel club rant as you see fit.
 

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What is the point of the mandatory spay anyway.

If a breeder doesn't think his or her pups are worth breeding what does that say about their confidence in the quality they're producing?
 

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It's not the quality of the pups, it's the opposite actually, they want to keep you from competing with them and them not getting their cut.
 
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