[mystikal222]

Hi all,first post! Hopen some1 has some helpful ideas....
I just got a 3 month old Italian greyhound from a friend.Overall,hes a great little dog! Ive already taught him not to whine and he knows when we go outside,its time to do his business.Unfortunatly,she never eally potty trained him so he still goes in the house as well,but thats not the prob,I expected that.The problem is that I crate him at night and she must have left him in a crate for very long periods of time because he has NO AVERSIONS to messing in the crate!
I take him out around midnight,when i go to bed,and get up at 5am to take him out again.I even creep around getting dressed so as not to wake him cause I know he will have to "go" the minute he opens his little eyes.
Is there any way to break him of going in the crate? Or do I need to start getting up at 3am?.......

 

[Criosphynx]

lots and lots of getting up to take the pupper outside....every accident in the crate makes it that much harder and takes that much longer to fix.

perhaps instead of a crate use an x pen with a puppy pad on one end?

 

[mystikal222]

I didnt want to use puppy pads,did that with my chihuahua and then she thought that any material on the floor was a "go" spot.... Guess Ill just start getten less sleep lol

 

[pawzaddict]

I didnt want to use puppy pads,did that with my chihuahua and then she thought that any material on the floor was a "go" spot.... Guess Ill just start getten less sleep lol

I still have this problem with my chihuahuas but not with my big boys...The chihuahuas think anything on the floor that is fabric is their puppy pad so we just make sure to keep clothes and towels and blankets up off the floor. My youngest chihuahua pee's in her crate sometimes and we just deal with it to be honest...we take her out as much as possible, restrict how much water she can have, etc etc. I would say either take him out more for potty breaks or give him a small puppy pad to put in a larger crate.

 

[mystikal222]

i take him out bout every hour n a half during the day,at night he has to go at least 4.i might have to use the pads but was hoping to avoid it..... Just wish the girl i got him from would have taken the time to train him,hes a smart lil guy and would have caught on fast Im sure.

 

[pawzaddict]

I think he still will. They also dont hold their bladders for very long at 3 months. I think it took until 5 months for our beagle mix to be really good at letting us know when he needs to go out and holding it until we let him out. I would just work with what you are doing and either add a small puppy pad or get up maybe one or two more times to take him out. He will eventually be able to hold his bladder longer

 

[Criosphynx]

everyone says that their dogs that are pad trained som'how generalized the behavior to peeing on anything soft. I read this all the time on forums....heres my take on that.

Personally I've had no issues teaching Chili that you pee on pads inside and grass outside...

My aunt who bred toy poodles did the same thing...no issues with the dogs peeing on soft stuff.

Dogs don't generalize well...if they can't learn imediatly that a word means the same thing everywhere I have real trouble believing that they will generalize a puppy pad to mean "pee everywhere soft" dogs brains don't work like that.

That would involve them imediatly learning (on their own) that everywhere=ok to pee and "soft" (which is a tremendously variable word) = pee here.... dirt is soft...I don't know what kind of pads people are buying but they aren't exactly pillows...in fact I think my outside dirt is softer. So will peeing on dirt teach my dog to pee on a dusty floor? Or on a soft rug? I doubt it.

The texture of carpet is very different from a towel or a mat or a pee pad...also the odor and color is different....the dog knows its different just like you and I do.

So if you teach a dog to pee on grass shag carpet is now game? Nope. IN fact...in that thread...how many dogs pee ONLY in one area of the lawn? Thats because the reinforcement history (for whatever reason) is in that area...the dog hasn't generalized that the whole yard is rewarding to pee in....following me?



I think peeing on carpet and towels and clothes have their OWN reward/reinforcement history that happend to develop at the same time pads were being used. Perhaps more supervision is simply in order to prevent peeing on anywhere but the pads.

If they have an accident, its reinforced to pee where they were (bladder release is reinforcement) by properly managing the dog (supervising) and rewarding heavily for peeing ONLY on the pad will give you a dog without issues.

just my .02

 

[pawzaddict]

everyone says that their dogs that are pad trained som'how generalized the behavior to peeing on anything soft. I read this all the time on forums....heres my take on that.

Personally I've had no issues teaching Chili that you pee on pads inside and grass outside...

My aunt who bred toy poodles did the same thing...no issues with the dogs peeing on soft stuff.

Dogs don't generalize well...if they can't learn imediatly that a word means the same thing everywhere I have real trouble believing that they will generalize a puppy pad to mean "pee everywhere soft" dogs brains don't work like that.

That would involve them imediatly learning (on their own) that everywhere=ok to pee and "soft" (which is a tremendously variable word) = pee here.... dirt is soft...I don't know what kind of pads people are buying but they aren't exactly pillows...in fact I think my outside dirt is softer. So will peeing on dirt teach my dog to pee on a dusty floor? Or on a soft rug? I doubt it.

The texture of carpet is very different from a towel or a mat or a pee pad...also the odor and color is different....the dog knows its different just like you and I do.

So if you teach a dog to pee on grass shag carpet is now game? Nope. IN fact...in that thread...how many dogs pee ONLY in one area of the lawn? Thats because the reinforcement history (for whatever reason) is in that area...the dog hasn't generalized that the whole yard is rewarding to pee in....following me?



I think peeing on carpet and towels and clothes have their OWN reward/reinforcement history that happend to develop at the same time pads were being used. Perhaps more supervision is simply in order to prevent peeing on anywhere but the pads.

If they have an accident, its reinforced to pee where they were (bladder release is reinforcement) by properly managing the dog (supervising) and rewarding heavily for peeing ONLY on the pad will give you a dog without issues.

just my .02

Sorry I was not being clear, they started peeing on clothing or towels AFTER removing the puppy pads because I was told to remove them if I wanted the chi's to go outside. Sorry, during the time the puppy pads were down they used the puppy pads. I don't want to put them back down because then I am afraid the pup will start peeing on them again and not going outside....

Oh and we bought washable puppy pads so they are fabric. Dont know if that even matters or makes a difference LOL

 

[mystikal222]

I dunno why my chihuahua does it lol.We took the pads away and she just started doing it on cloths and such-who knows....but I really wanted this pup to learn to go only outside.I do watch him pretty much constantly,follow him around the house and since we have an apartment Im always outside with him.Unfortunatly I cant stay up all night to watch him in his crate,I suppose its just gonna take some time (and a lot of carpet cleaning lol).

 

[Criosphynx]

Sorry I was not being clear, they started peeing on clothing or towels AFTER removing the puppy pads because I was told to remove them if I wanted the chi's to go outside. Sorry, during the time the puppy pads were down they used the puppy pads. I don't want to put them back down because then I am afraid the pup will start peeing on them again and not going outside....

Oh and we bought washable puppy pads so they are fabric. Dont know if that even matters or makes a difference LOL

wasn't directed at you just at the world, I've heard it said ALOT. So is this btw:

For the transition from pads to outside you have to use both for a while...perhaps a bland cookie for using the pad and a piece of chicken for going outside (outside peeing is better!yay chicken!)

Teaching inside/outside are two separate behaviors..each peeing place has its own reward history (this is why dogs hit for peeing in the living room now pee in another room, yet still in the house, still on carpet)

You wouldn't teach sit and then quit asking for sit to teach your dog to shake...you'd do both for a while and then gradually ask for the new behavior more and more

That and those damn tiny little bladders!!!

 

[pawzaddict]

wasn't directed at you just at the world, I've heard it said ALOT. So is this btw:

For the transition from pads to outside you have to use both for a while...perhaps a bland cookie for using the pad and a piece of chicken for going outside (outside peeing is better!yay chicken!)

Teaching inside/outside are two separate behaviors..each peeing place has its own reward history (this is why dogs hit for peeing in the living room now pee in another room, yet still in the house, still on carpet)

You wouldn't teach sit and then quit asking for sit to teach your dog to shake...you'd do both for a while and then gradually ask for the new behavior more and more

That and those damn tiny little bladders!!!

btw our chihuahua sucks she is still peeing in the dang house, even did it in front of/next to my bf and not on the puppy pad. Luckily we have tile so I don't feel like screaming lol She really is not learning, even when we praise her for doing it outside. ugh

 

[Criosphynx]

btw our chihuahua sucks she is still peeing in the dang house, even did it in front of/next to my bf and not on the puppy pad. Luckily we have tile so I don't feel like screaming lol She really is not learning, even when we praise her for doing it outside. ugh

keep trying! Don't give up! She sounds like she has a long history of peeing inside...the longer the history, the longer the fix.

Are you treating her for going outside too?

Some dogs literally have to learn how to learn. Perhaps its time to start doing clicker games with her...it basically turns their little brains on.

 

[mystikal222]

btw our chihuahua sucks she is still peeing in the dang house, even did it in front of/next to my bf and not on the puppy pad. Luckily we have tile so I don't feel like screaming lol She really is not learning, even when we praise her for doing it outside. ugh

Lol I feel your pain! Our chihuahua has come a long way but still has her moments.Ive heard they arent the easiest to train especialy when they arent puppies anymore.Margarita is 3 and just now being taken off puppy pads......

 

[pawzaddict]

keep trying! Don't give up! She sounds like she has a long history of peeing inside...the longer the history, the longer the fix.

Are you treating her for going outside too?

Some dogs literally have to learn how to learn. Perhaps its time to start doing clicker games with her...it basically turns their little brains on.

I give her treats yes...shes just a little pain in the butt LOL I will keep working on it. Hopefully one day this lil thing quits. I was shocked when she did it right next to my bf's foot. When she does go inside we take her outside...should we keep doing that?

 

[Criosphynx]

Yeah, i'd take her outside anyway...especially if shes mid stream when you catch her LOL

 

[pawzaddict]

Yeah, i'd take her outside anyway...especially if shes mid stream when you catch her LOL

Cool at least we are doing something right! Thnx!