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Also asking for a behavior after a bunch of unwanted ones IS rewarding the unasked for behavior.
Strongly disagree, but that's just because I've never had a problem with any dog I've trained. I think the disconnect here is that it all depends on how you present the solution to the problem and how you're interacting with the dog while you're doing it. It is also strongly situational.

I should mention the dog does not do her "rollodex" any longer, I guess I worded the post poorly. Now she waits calmly or entertains herself near us until we're done what we're doing, because she knows if she's nice and calm, she'll get some attention... though not always a treat. Because we practice NILF she'd probably be overweight if we treated her for everything ;)
 

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Sendiulino,
My point was that, when first teaching a puppy, its a miraculous moment when the puppy "gets it" and starts to offer behaviors... this "revelation" is something good to reinforce in a young dog who is "learning how to learn." I think you sort of missed my point about that.

And to offer you a bit of a heads up... Crio REALLY knows what she's talking about. She knows far more about dog training than most of us ever will in a lifetime. If she is willing to engage you, take advantage of the opportunity and learn from her! ;)

Best Regards
 

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I never said to treat her for "everything".
So you disagree its a chain and stim control. Why? Do you even understand the terms im using? Can you define them off the top of your head and give examples? I dont see how you can disagree when you clearly dont understand what im saying

If you don't want to learn. Thats fine. I wont waste your time, but telling me that im incorrect, because your "other dog" was different is silly. Not all dogs are the same, but the principles of learning are unwavering. Dogs offer behaviors like that because its reinforced. Either through a chain or lack of stim control. Self reinforcing is also probable. So if you have a magical fourth possibility I've som' how never heard of, please share. And not an antedote
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Discussion Starter #64
Well thought I'd update on here what's been happening recently.

Poor woody got ill, he was being sick, took him to the vets where he has some injections. Couple days later he's back to his normal self. (he was very quiet for a few days)

His biting has become more frequent now drawing blood a couple times, now he doesn't just snap for no reason. He'll be wound up or excited or you try to bring him away from something he shouldn't be doing and you have to be carefull.

I'm not scared of him as it doesn't hurt but it's not something I want him to keep on doing when he gets bigger as it will start to be more aggressive.
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I'd recommend you use a slip lead to remove him from situations, rather than your hands on his collar.

Teach him to like the slip lead by practicing looping it over his head while you simultaneously pop a treat in his mouth. Soon he will welcome the lead.

This system keeps your hands out of the mix. I'm a bit concerned that there is a pattern being established of him being too rough with your skin.
 

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Here's a slip lead This is something I use with my dog Josey, as it avoids the whole trigger with the hands thing.

Obviously you don't want to leave a lead like this on him while he walks around, as it could constrict his neck. Its just very much easier than grappling for D-rings to clip to, and also very easy to remove.

You can also just use a regular leash and make a "slip" from the handle end.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
the problem with the slip lead is as i've found today once he starts biting (which has become even more of a vicious act) he'll be really snapping at your hands. I'm quite confused what to do.

how can i either prevent him from getting to that state and what would i do in the situation where he is in that state.

I put him in his crate but he will constant bark for a good 15 minutes and weep for ever.
 

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the problem with the slip lead is as i've found today once he starts biting (which has become even more of a vicious act) he'll be really snapping at your hands. I'm quite confused what to do.

how can i either prevent him from getting to that state and what would i do in the situation where he is in that state.

I put him in his crate but he will constant bark for a good 15 minutes and weep for ever.
Can you take a video of this "snapping" behavior? I'm not clear from your description if he is being a normal, excited, puppy, or if there is something more sinister going on.

My guess is he is just being a normal puppy who gets all excited and just wants to interact with everything via his mouth.

Assuming this is the case, I can reassure you this is normal! The way to deal with this is to put a nice soft toy in his mouth and gently encourage him to interact with that! ALWAYS have a toy in your hand to put in his mouth so you AVOID having him use your hands for play! NEVER "rough house" with him with your hands, and don't let anyone else do so either. If you have been allowing him to use hands as play objects, that would account for his focus on them.

Get him more exercise too. And make the exercise toy focused... toss a toy in the garden. If he gets all excited about biting your pant cuffs or hands, you must remain SUPER CALM so as not to get him more excited. Yes, putting him in his crate or in a room behind a baby gate until he calms down is a good idea... even if he barks for 15 minutes. Just IGNORE him. Don't yell at him or scold him for barking, because even that negative attention will reinforce him for barking, because he is seeking your acknowledgement.

Does some of this help?
 

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One key to working with puppies is to try not to get them all riled up and excited. They are not very good at calming themselves down. You must remain calm, move slowly, talk softly, and keep the puppy focused on toys such as balls, stuffed animals, rope toys etc. Children running about, high pitched noises, lots of activity and so forth gets puppies all out of control excited. If this happens, get the puppy out in the garden where he can safely spin off that energy. (well, you should do this often anyway).

It does not work to yell at, restrain, or otherwise try to force a puppy to calm down. What does work, is to be very, very calm yourself. Teach the puppy a "sit" word and reward with a treat. Keep bits of kibble in your pocket so you can ask for a sit any time puppy is being naughty and reward him with a bit of food. This will develop listening and self control with the puppy. Be super calm when you ask for the sit. Don't shout or ask many times. Ask in a normal voice and stand still waiting calmly. Repeat again in a few moments if it appears he has not tuned into you yet. Once puppy is sitting you can change his focus to a toy. Or perhaps you can call him to follow you out to the garden where you can let him run around.

Hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Hi tess,

i've had to half restrain him in the sense that grabbing him and hold him when hes figgiting and going mad when he's excited to put him into the cage as other wise he'll be at my toes biting them! :p

well this normally happens without fail in the morning so what i'll do is try and get a toy in my hand ready for when he has finished the toilet as i normally pick him up and put him outside straight away for him to do his thing.

Once back in is when he usually has the most energy and starts to run around like a nutter and generally bite, bark and chew at anything human.

With it usually being about 5:30 - 6:00 am there's a little stress with him being loud in the house and back garden with my younger brothers and sister and the next door neighbours!

He's started going out for walks and i was amazed when i let him off the lead as i got into the park and he followed me the entire time. He's got a little more adventureous the last few times (take him twice a day) more if i can. he will hang back a bit untill im a little further away and run after me like a mad nutter!

He seems to love kids and gets very excited over any people and MUST say hello at all costs which i've been pretty worried about considering he gets excited and nips. But had him under control and he seemed pretty good but still, better be safe than sorry at all times with that.

He's encountered 3 dogs (face to face) whilst in his dog walks so far one things certain he justs love to chase the other dog around in circles and doesn't listen to anything i say :p Had to pick him up with one of them as the other dog seemed to be getting tired LOL

But yeah, a little update for you.
 

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Dan,
From your description your puppy sounds utterly normal! This is puppyhood, and it does not last forever! :)

Hi tess,

i've had to half restrain him in the sense that grabbing him and hold him when hes figgiting and going mad when he's excited to put him into the cage as other wise he'll be at my toes biting them! :p
This sounds fine... just be as slow and gentle as you can...

well this normally happens without fail in the morning so what i'll do is try and get a toy in my hand ready for when he has finished the toilet as i normally pick him up and put him outside straight away for him to do his thing.
Good plan.

Once back in is when he usually has the most energy and starts to run around like a nutter and generally bite, bark and chew at anything human.
Perhaps taking pup for a 10 or 20 minute romp first thing outside would spin this off.

With it usually being about 5:30 - 6:00 am there's a little stress with him being loud in the house and back garden with my younger brothers and sister and the next door neighbours!
This is called "crazy hour" and most of our dogs have it! Just get him outside for a play session!

He's started going out for walks and i was amazed when i let him off the lead as i got into the park and he followed me the entire time. He's got a little more adventureous the last few times (take him twice a day) more if i can. he will hang back a bit untill im a little further away and run after me like a mad nutter!
A young puppy wants very much to stay with his owner. This is an ideal time to practice off-leash as he will learn to keep track of you. As he gets older, he'll go further and be more independent. I start my pups off leash from 8 weeks, so they are now good dogs for hiking!

Its a really good practice to give the puppy a treat occasionally when he "checks in" with you. You want to reinforce that it is always pleasant to come to you!

He seems to love kids and gets very excited over any people and MUST say hello at all costs which i've been pretty worried about considering he gets excited and nips. But had him under control and he seemed pretty good but still, better be safe than sorry at all times with that.
It is VERY good that he is friendly with people. You can carry treats and have him "sit" for a treat. This will help him learn to greet people more calmly. But overall, he's just a puppy and will be a bit excited, so don't get upset with him about it, as you don't want him to learn to associate new people with you being upset. This is important that he maintain positive feelings about new people.

He's encountered 3 dogs (face to face) whilst in his dog walks so far one things certain he justs love to chase the other dog around in circles and doesn't listen to anything i say :p Had to pick him up with one of them as the other dog seemed to be getting tired LOL
Again, this is very normal puppy behavior. It would be good if you can find him a playmate or two with whom he can regularly romp. Its important for him to develop dog social skills. Also, playing with other dogs teaches a puppy not to bite too hard. Get him in a puppy socialization class that is all positive (no yanking or the leash or corrections.)

But yeah, a little update for you.
Thank you so much! He sounds like he's doing just fine. Puppies are a lot of work and the first one is always a bit scary to raise as you don't know what's coming next!
 

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Discussion Starter #73
It is VERY good that he is friendly with people. You can carry treats and have him "sit" for a treat. This will help him learn to greet people more calmly. But overall, he's just a puppy and will be a bit excited, so don't get upset with him about it, as you don't want him to learn to associate new people with you being upset. This is important that he maintain positive feelings about new people.
He got a bit angry on his first walk today when i had to bring him away from a dog that wasn't the best with other dogs (the owner said) and start snapping at me, weeping and trying to get out of my arms so he could chase the dog again. What's best to do in a situation like this? I just walked off but deem the biting a bit out of control.

I don't think his general excitement levels are helped by the interaction he has with my younger brothers who generally just run around all day and he does the same with them at home.

I think if he was in a situation all the time where it was fairly quiet he would be better. Do you think so?
 

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Discussion Starter #74
any suggestions with cage barking and weeping. Again he settles down after a while but will this get better after time? Should i be putting him in there more often to make him use to the situation? Treat him when putting him in the cage? Treat him when he settles down? or just put him in and leave.
 

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As far as any negative reactions with other dogs, yes, you did the right thing to remove him. I'm a little concerned about what you describe as "snapping at me and weeping". It sounds from your description that the puppy is in a bit of a panic and feels the need to defend himself. It would be good to try to avoid getting yourself into situations where he has to be physically restrained with your hands if this panics him so much. Perhaps walk him with a harness and long leash, so you can gently pull him away from dangers without getting him to associate your hands in the process.

Yes, little brothers and lots of excitement makes things more challenging for raising puppies.

Barking and weeping in the cage... more time in there won't help. The best thing is to make sure he is plenty tired out, has all his needs for exercise, food, water and potty met, then put him in his cage very matter of factly with a nice treat and a gentle pat and then ignore any fussing he might do.

Also, don't let him out of the crate while he is weeping. Wait for him to stop. If he starts to cry as you approach the crate, stop in your tracks and wait without moving. When he stops crying, take another step, and so forth. If you do this carefully, soon he will figure out that crying only makes you stop coming to let him out. It really works, but you must do this consistently to make it stick. :)
 
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