Dog Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,197 Posts
It's a great first step, but they are only investigating the abuse on the big, not his abuse to dogs. And you know his loyal followers will just say he was doing what has to do to train the dog, that the pig needs to learn it's place, and that the sun still shines out of his a$$.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
495 Posts
I was just about to post this if no one else had. It will be interesting to see how things turn out. Quite often, animal cruelty has some pretty narrow definitions, so even if we don't agree with his training methods and find them cruel, they might not qualify for the legal definition of cruelty. Regardless, it will deal a blow to his "brand," which I approve of.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,197 Posts
Cesar Milan's training styles are abuse. There are MANY exerts from his shows that show his kicking dogs, holding them up off the ground by their collars, and doing other forceful moves with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mpuybf1pYY
Just kicking clips.

And that is what we see in the episodes. Imagine what happens behind closed doors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
495 Posts
Cesar Milan's training styles are abuse. There are MANY exerts from his shows that show his kicking dogs, holding them up off the ground by their collars, and doing other forceful moves with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mpuybf1pYY
Just kicking clips.

And that is what we see in the episodes. Imagine what happens behind closed doors.
I agree, but sadly those things often don't hit the requirements for animal cruelty laws, otherwise he would have been prosecuted long ago. Laws tend to only kick in if a dog is kept in a bag or shot or things like that. "Just" kicking or "just" punching them isn't enough to ding the laws, which is exceedingly frustrating.

I'm really hoping that this investigation will bring light to how cruel his methods are and maybe bring about some change in cruelty laws, especially wherever the heck his stuff was filmed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
I saw that clip on youtube and I was glad to see a lot of people were angry about it.

I just watched the follow up clip and I wasn't impressed. Simon was still clearly uncomfortable with the pigs and was trying hard to avoid them. He seemed to be acting the same as he was in the original clip actually. In the original clip that I saw it wasn't until someone grabbed the pigs leg and made it squeal that he attacked it. They didn't explain that in their statement though. It seemed like they were trying to provoke Simon so that he would attack the pig.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,599 Posts
I'm pleased by the amount of attention this is getting. His methods are abuse and flat out do not work. Maybe Nat Geo will realize their mistake and pull his show...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,910 Posts
I saw that clip on youtube and I was glad to see a lot of people were angry about it.

I just watched the follow up clip and I wasn't impressed. Simon was still clearly uncomfortable with the pigs and was trying hard to avoid them. He seemed to be acting the same as he was in the original clip actually. In the original clip that I saw it wasn't until someone grabbed the pigs leg and made it squeal that he attacked it. They didn't explain that in their statement though. It seemed like they were trying to provoke Simon so that he would attack the pig.
Admittedly I don't really watch his show, but I think provoking is really what he does. Instead of managing the situation so the dog succeeds, he forces the dog to fail and then corrects (harshly) for that failure.

I honestly didn't know he still had a show. Hopefully he's done for now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,887 Posts
I'm not a fan of his show. I think he creates suspenseful situations just to increase TV ratings. His show is like many other reality shows. However, if the incident with the pig is all they have, I doubt he'll be charged with anything and I'm not sure I'd say he should be. It is possible more will be found with an investigation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,910 Posts
I finally watched the video. The poor dog clearly doesn't want to go near the pigs - not sure if that was Cesar's doing but I'd imagine like most things his behavior stems from fear of the pigs rather than the desire to eat them. I'm not surprised but I have to say I cringed when Simon tried to turn away - several times!! - and Cesar forced him to proceed anyway. No surprise that he bit the pig...but absolutely tragic that he tried so hard NOT to, that he gave off such awesome signals that he needed space and yet they were ignored. THAT is how you create not only a biter, but one that "bites out of nowhere".

I actually haven't seen anything on my own FB feed which surprises me but for kicks I found a news article and read through the comments. I really shouldn't have. There were some awesome intelligent arguments against Cesar from people who clearly know what they are talking about...but so, so many people who think his behavior is okay. So many who say "he's not really kicking the dogs" and an appalling amount who actually say you HAVE to discipline dogs in this way to properly train them!

I'm not perfect, myself. Just yesterday there was a toy under the bed that Chisum chose to RG (who knows why as he rarely cares about toys that much) and the cat walked by and he lunged at the cat. I yelled at him. Heat of the moment I guess, then I told him to leave the room while I saw to the cat (who was fine). There are times things like this happen, I think it's rare for a dog to live without ever being punished, but to set a dog up to fail purposefully, to ignore all the really awesome signs the dog is giving off (seriously the dog was trying so hard...I'm still upset about that) and then punish...it's not only tragic for the dog, it will have tragic consequences in the future.

I think not a lot of people really understand behavior or care to. We're a negative species. We see bad and want to fix it, instead of seeing the good to reward.

Anyway - that's my rant. :) IMO this dog is not cured. This behavior will resurface, worse next time, but we'll only hear about it if the owner decides to sue, I guess.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Ceasar seemed to change after his ugly divorce, I dunno. I think when he started he genuinely was "calm and assertive" but somewhere along the line he lost the "calm" part and also fame went to his head. I find his show very difficult to watch these days, because of incidents like this. Its obvious to me now the only reason the dogs appear to be 'cured' of their problems is because he has stressed them to the point that they just shut down.

unfortunate as this was for the pig, I do find it hard to get too upset for the pigs, considering it's routine for them to be neutered without anesthesia :eek:. Picking up pigs by their back legs is also standard procedure in the world of hogs. I'm guessing pet potbellies don't undergo such treatment though! I hope!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Just waiting for the firestorm of comments.

Honestly, I do agree with most of Cesar's training techniques. However, I do not agree with picking dogs up by their collars. People often mistake assertiveness for aggressiveness, which I admit, its a common mistake.

Reports say that the pig was immediately tended to after the "attack." To be honest, I think it's kind of pathetic that the dog that attacked the pig was a frenchie, and it wasn't even what I would consider an attack. The dog just nipped the pig.

Sorry if this sounds cold, but I think Cesar is a generally good person, and while I do not agree with all of his techniques, I think this whole animal abuse thing is a bunch of activists trying to get him on anything possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
Pretend that it wasn't Cesar in there, but someone else. You'd laugh at the trainer's incompetence if you weren't horrified with the treatment of the animals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,910 Posts
I actually think the pig is going to be just fine. It's unfortunate but he's okay.

I am far more upset by the "training" that is going on here.

When Chisum sees a trigger and turns away willingly like that dog tried to do I throw a celebration. That is GOOD. He's ruining these poor dogs, but I guess he's not the only bad trainer out there, I just wish he had less of a following.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
I'm glad the pig is fine but I wouldn't say it "just got nipped" it appeared as though a chunk of its ear was bit off but maybe I didn't see things right I'll have to rewatch the clip.
Maybe he is a good person who means well but I really don't see that as an excuse for his incompetence and ignorance. You can't claim to be an expert on dogs and then go do something as stupid as he did here and in other episodes of his show. This wasn't just a mistake, as PoppyKenna said this dog was set up to fail, there were so many things that could have been done to prevent the bite that were just common sense.

Here are a few articles in response to this episode

Cesar Millan and the Pigs
Cesar's Under Fire, But Dog Trainers Warned NatGeo For Years
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top