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I know that there´s lot of dog owners that like (or love) him, but..
Have to say that real and professional dog trainers don´t fancy him that much. Like Raymond Coppinger said: "This popular show has made dog training in USA ageing 20 years. One of my friend, who has worked with aggressive dogs over ten years, says that he hasn´t been bited so many times through his hole career that Cesar Milan gets bited in on one show."

Bob Bailey is my idol ;)
 

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I love Ceasar.

Do his methods work for the reasons he says....NO

Would I use his methods on my dogs...Not now that I know better ;)

He does promote responsible ownership....like hey you have to exercise and train your dog... but his methods (though I've noticed him changing a bit as time goes on) are often HIGHLY aversive and are not ussually neccessary.

Most of his cases can be corrected using positve training techniques. But Positive techniques don't make for good tv.

So do I like him...yes....do I think the average person should take his advice.... NOPE



Dog | Forum | Rocks!
 

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Have to say that he doesn´t even make good TV. Using shock collar until dog loses its bladder control, isn´t good TV.
 

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Don´t even remember.. can´t watch it. Case was that the dog tryid to attack a cat and Cesar used "natural energy" (=tryid to hide a shock collar behind his back). Negative energy was transferred out of the dog and positive energy (well, electricity really is energy..) was brought in to the dog. Final result (half on hour) was that when dog saw a cat, dog urinated and run off.

He uses flooding.. very much..
 

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Don´t even remember.. can´t watch it. Case was that the dog tryid to attack a cat and Cesar used "natural energy" (=tryid to hide a shock collar behind his back). Negative energy was transferred out of the dog and positive energy (well, electricity really is energy..) was brought in to the dog. Final result (half on hour) was that when dog saw a cat, dog urinated and run off.

He uses flooding.. very much..

oh yes... I totally agree. I like I said...his methods work...but not for the reasons hes says.

But I can only remember one episode where the collar was used and it was a life and death situation. ( the dog was attacking moving tires on a tractor and almost died once already)

Are you refering the the episode with the black german shepard type dog?



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Does anyone actually consider those special Cesar Milan skates a training tool? Still it must take nerve to let the dogs pull you - what happens if there is a hole in the road, or a squirrel on the loose?
 

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But I can only remember one episode where the collar was used and it was a life and death situation. ( the dog was attacking moving tires on a tractor and almost died once already)

Are you refering the the episode with the black german shepard type dog?
I saw the episode few years back, when I was in USA (I live in Finland now). It wasn´t the shepard type dog. Can´t find it on internet.
Here you can find some episodes, including "Cesar's eCollar" and "JonBee, Hudson & Violet and Buford" that are awful to watch :(
 

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Does anyone actually consider those special Cesar Milan skates a training tool? Still it must take nerve to let the dogs pull you - what happens if there is a hole in the road, or a squirrel on the loose?
Letting a dog pull you, and pretty much be in control of your movement on the road is VERY bad idea, if I want to drain my dog's energy, I let her run next to me on my bike (the bitch can run faster on me when I'm on full speed o_O but most of the time I just cycle in a decent speed, jogging speed, so she'd jog and get tired, while I don't :D)
 

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Does anyone actually consider those special Cesar Milan skates a training tool? Still it must take nerve to let the dogs pull you - what happens if there is a hole in the road, or a squirrel on the loose?

its actually not as hard as it looks. In fact I don't find it hard to do at all.

Granted...when he does it with many large dogs its a bad idea... but its just like anything else... you train the dog to do what you need (like slow down, stop, or look at you) just at a higher speed also with a 40lb dog and smaller...its kinda hard for them to pull you all by themselves..



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I love Ceasar.
Most of his cases can be corrected using positive training techniques. But Positive techniques don't make for good TV.
I think Victoria Stilwell shows that positive training techniques do make for good TV.


Also, I agree with most of Caeser's techniques. I think it's important to point out that he has never claimed to be a dog trainer. What he does is much more primal. He teaches people how to understand and communicate with their dogs. I know from first hand experience that several of his techniques work very well. Unfortunately, not from my own use but from my German Shepherd.

You see, we have three small dogs, two Chihuahuas and a min-pin mix, and an old German Shepherd. When Caesar talks about how the Alfa-dog interacts with his pack, it's as if he is describing our Shepherd. For example, if one of the little dogs starts playing too rough and hurts another little dog, Cole, the shepherd, will walk calmly over to the dog and roll it over onto its back using either his mouth or front paw. He does this for just about everything they do that he disagrees with. Back when the little dogs first came to stay with us, they'd try to steal Cole's food so he'd walk over to his bowl, and anytime they'd get too close, he'd growl at them just once, until they backed away. If one ignored his growl, he'd knock them over and pin them to the ground with his mouth (that's the 'bite' Caesar is always mimicking) If Cole is sleeping and the little dogs are being rambunctious too close to him, he'll growl or bark at them once and they will back away.

I am dead serious when I say he has these dogs trained well. They no longer touch his food bowl or bug him when he's trying to sleep. Cole is always very gentle with the dogs and would never hurt any of them. He loves them very much.

Also, all three of the dogs adore him, they follow him everywhere, give him kisses, cuddle with him, and generally admire him 24 hours a day. If he lays down to take a nap, they lay down to take a nap. If he wants to go outside, they want to go outside. If he wants to go for a walk, they are right there behind him. So you see, While caeser's methods are unconventional, he is interacting with dogs in the exact same manner dogs interact with each other. He is speaking their language. And given my own personal experience, it seems that they don't have a problem with it at all.
 

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I think Victoria Stilwell shows that positive training techniques do make for good TV.


Also, I agree with most of Caeser's techniques. I think it's important to point out that he has never claimed to be a dog trainer. What he does is much more primal. He teaches people how to understand and communicate with their dogs. I know from first hand experience that several of his techniques work very well. Unfortunately, not from my own use but from my German Shepherd.

You see, we have three small dogs, two Chihuahuas and a min-pin mix, and an old German Shepherd. When Caesar talks about how the Alfa-dog interacts with his pack, it's as if he is describing our Shepherd. For example, if one of the little dogs starts playing too rough and hurts another little dog, Cole, the shepherd, will walk calmly over to the dog and roll it over onto its back using either his mouth or front paw. He does this for just about everything they do that he disagrees with. Back when the little dogs first came to stay with us, they'd try to steal Cole's food so he'd walk over to his bowl, and anytime they'd get too close, he'd growl at them just once, until they backed away. If one ignored his growl, he'd knock them over and pin them to the ground with his mouth (that's the 'bite' Caesar is always mimicking) If Cole is sleeping and the little dogs are being rambunctious too close to him, he'll growl or bark at them once and they will back away.

I am dead serious when I say he has these dogs trained well. They no longer touch his food bowl or bug him when he's trying to sleep. Cole is always very gentle with the dogs and would never hurt any of them. He loves them very much.

Also, all three of the dogs adore him, they follow him everywhere, give him kisses, cuddle with him, and generally admire him 24 hours a day. If he lays down to take a nap, they lay down to take a nap. If he wants to go outside, they want to go outside. If he wants to go for a walk, they are right there behind him. So you see, While caeser's methods are unconventional, he is interacting with dogs in the exact same manner dogs interact with each other. He is speaking their language. And given my own personal experience, it seems that they don't have a problem with it at all.
Id bet money that her show never reaches the popularity that Ceasers does. Which is a shame. Also you have to remember that ceaser is on basic cable and Stillwell is on Animal planet which is a premium channel, which most people do not receive.

Ceasers methods are not unconventional. He useds Negative reinforcement and Positive punishment for the majority of his "techniques" NOTHING he does is new, its just repackaged to look new.

And yes your right, Ceasers methods work, no one argues that adversive methods work, and work quickly, the argument is at what cost to the animal do they work, and why weren't positive methods tried first by a competant trainer?

Most of the dogs that belong to his clients quickly shutdown or are flooded to the point that they behave. If you are unfamiliar with shutdown and flooding I suggest you research it heavily and then watch his shows with the sound off. :)



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I personally do not think the way he deals with aggressive dogs is wrong... I do think every person is different and every dog is different so if a dog needs to be shutdown in extreme cases then it needs to be done... I believe some of these dogs could not have been rehabilitated without him... I dont think every dog needs such assertive corrections but some do.
 

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I personally do not think the way he deals with aggressive dogs is wrong... I do think every person is different and every dog is different so if a dog needs to be shutdown in extreme cases then it needs to be done... I believe some of these dogs could not have been rehabilitated without him... I dont think every dog needs such assertive corrections but some do.
I dont' think shutdown means what you think it means :) :)

It is also referred to as "learned helplessness" here's an article.

Learned Helplessnessw & burnout

A shutdown dog of normal temprement is basically tortured or abused until it completely gives up.

When a dog is shutdown its ability to learn is also OFF, so no training negative or positive will stick.



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Letting a dog pull you, and pretty much be in control of your movement on the road is VERY bad idea, if I want to drain my dog's energy, I let her run next to me on my bike (the bitch can run faster on me when I'm on full speed o_O but most of the time I just cycle in a decent speed, jogging speed, so she'd jog and get tired, while I don't :D)
I wish I could do this. My dog's afraid of my bicycle. :(
 

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I dont' think shutdown means what you think it means :) :)

It is also referred to as "learned helplessness" here's an article.

Learned Helplessnessw & burnout

A shutdown dog of normal temprement is basically tortured or abused until it completely gives up.

When a dog is shutdown its ability to learn is also OFF, so no training negative or positive will stick.
Oh I took it as putting the dog in its place.... like when he does the "dog nipping" to show dominance I use that on my big boy when he gets over excited and it gets his attention. But honestly whether I do that or just get super happy to get his attention it will never cure him...only gets his focus on me lol. Since hearing your advice on being happy I have decided to do that...less headache.
 
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