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I don't really have another place to post this where people will understand my frustration on this topic so I've come here.
I'm in a Siberian Husky training group on FB because I have a husky mix. The group is 50/50 (honestly thinking about leaving it though) but there are a few good tips I've seen. But lately there have been a LOT of posts with people advertising their "purebred" huskies and also people asking for male/female dogs to breed to their dog.
I'm still on the fence for whether or not I agree with breeding purebred dogs, even responsibly, since (and I know it's a very common argument) there are an unbelievable amount of dogs that get surrendered to shelters and are euthanized daily just because there's no space. I also live in a town where BYB is a huge problem and there's almost always a line of cars at the local shelter to surrender dogs.
These experiences haven't helped my view on responsible breeding and ESPECIALLY random people breeding their dogs to some random person's they found online.
So I come here to ask others, what are your views on breeding? If you can give me some reasons to support it, I'd be thankful because I really would like to understand where people are coming from.
I understand police dogs/service dogs being (responsibly) bred for temperament and drive because they have jobs to do but for the average joe who just wants a companion dog or something I don't get why a shelter dog/ puppy wouldn't be better if there's an overpopulation problem?

Related note: Here's the post that made me want to start this topic.
Photograph Dog Carnivore Clock Dog breed
This is the original post.
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This is the conversation I started in the comments (blue is me, red is her) Correct me if I'm wrong but I was concerned about her just asking for a random male dog to be bred with her's and she says it's borderline harassment? Unsolicited advice maybe but I wasn't harassing. It just REALLY concerns me when people do this stuff and it's super sketchy.
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This is her responding to another comment someone else made about her spelling "male" wrong.

Every time someone posted a picture of their husky in the comments her first question was "Is he fixed??"
Idk. Maybe I'm being weird but I just feel like this is not responsible breeding even IF she had health tests done since she really wouldn't know the other dog or it'spersonality or temperament. She also wouldn't already have homes for the puppies since this just seems like a spur of the moment thing.

Anyway, sorry for the long post but I'd love to know peoples thoughts.
 

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I want to begin by saying I am 100% an adopt don't shop kind of person.

IMO I think there are two reasons people buy purebred (supposedly) dogs, and that is for looks or health. Responsibly bred purebred dogs are supposed to go through rigorous testing before breeding to ensure the pups aren't predisposed to health issues. Other than that, a lot of people buy purebred dogs because of recent trends or because they like the way they look.

Some people breed purebred dogs to make a healthier breed, as mentioned above. But a lot people do it because they think puppies are cute and they love their dog so they want to create more of them. And then there are those who cut corners to make money.

But you are completely right, especially with huskies which are a very high maintenance breed, a lot of them end up in shelters.
 

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I don't really have another place to post this where people will understand my frustration on this topic so I've come here.
I'm in a Siberian Husky training group on FB because I have a husky mix. The group is 50/50 (honestly thinking about leaving it though) but there are a few good tips I've seen. But lately there have been a LOT of posts with people advertising their "purebred" huskies and also people asking for male/female dogs to breed to their dog.
I'm still on the fence for whether or not I agree with breeding purebred dogs, even responsibly, since (and I know it's a very common argument) there are an unbelievable amount of dogs that get surrendered to shelters and are euthanized daily just because there's no space. I also live in a town where BYB is a huge problem and there's almost always a line of cars at the local shelter to surrender dogs.
These experiences haven't helped my view on responsible breeding and ESPECIALLY random people breeding their dogs to some random person's they found online.
So I come here to ask others, what are your views on breeding? If you can give me some reasons to support it, I'd be thankful because I really would like to understand where people are coming from.
I understand police dogs/service dogs being (responsibly) bred for temperament and drive because they have jobs to do but for the average joe who just wants a companion dog or something I don't get why a shelter dog/ puppy wouldn't be better if there's an overpopulation problem?

Related note: Here's the post that made me want to start this topic.
View attachment 252086 This is the original post.
View attachment 252084 View attachment 252083 This is the conversation I started in the comments (blue is me, red is her) Correct me if I'm wrong but I was concerned about her just asking for a random male dog to be bred with her's and she says it's borderline harassment? Unsolicited advice maybe but I wasn't harassing. It just REALLY concerns me when people do this stuff and it's super sketchy.
View attachment 252087 This is her responding to another comment someone else made about her spelling "male" wrong.

Every time someone posted a picture of their husky in the comments her first question was "Is he fixed??"
Idk. Maybe I'm being weird but I just feel like this is not responsible breeding even IF she had health tests done since she really wouldn't know the other dog or it'spersonality or temperament. She also wouldn't already have homes for the puppies since this just seems like a spur of the moment thing.

Anyway, sorry for the long post but I'd love to know peoples thoughts.
It seems to me very irresponsible the way shes going about it.

In an ideal world i wish no dogs were bred until every last one on the planet had a loving home.

The reality is my next dog will be from a breeder whether purebred or crossbred because shelters or breed rescues where i am immediately disqualify you if you have a very small yard or you dont work and your sole income is a pension.
 

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I want to begin by saying I am 100% an adopt don't shop kind of person.

IMO I think there are two reasons people buy purebred (supposedly) dogs, and that is for looks or health. Responsibly bred purebred dogs are supposed to go through rigorous testing before breeding to ensure the pups aren't predisposed to health issues. Other than that, a lot of people buy purebred dogs because of recent trends or because they like the way they look.

Some people breed purebred dogs to make a healthier breed, as mentioned above. But a lot people do it because they think puppies are cute and they love their dog so they want to create more of them. And then there are those who cut corners to make money.

But you are completely right, especially with huskies which are a very high maintenance breed, a lot of them end up in shelters.
Also personally. Id love a purebred alaskan malamute for personality alone
 

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This is not responsible breeding and never will be. At all, first off.

I'm for rescue. And I'm also for ethically and responsibly done breeding. Those two words are not necessarily mutual. As for why...well, for the very passionate individual, there may never be a good reason.

However, I think it's a miserable day when a breed goes extinct. And while MaisieandGem are right that people who carefully pick a breeder are wanting looks and health, there is more to it. Like temperament, temperament of relatives, getting to know a particular pup over several visits as they develop (if able), knowing one half of the critical socialization window is in good hands, lifelong support if training or health issues come up. It's not like all the puppy mills and bybs will disappear if it became illegal to breed. If anything, they'd probably thrive. So, where does that leave our beloved breeds' future? In the hands of people who don't give a crap? Who don't even know about health issues or care? Breeding dogs that have no resemblance to what the breed is about? People who go to just any breeder are likely just in it for looks.

I don't think ~ 96% of people who breed should be breeding. I also know a puppy mill will churn out more puppies in a year and a week's (even day's) worth of "breeders" found on Craigslist will "out-produce" a responsible and ethical breeder probably ever will in a decade or more. And the "Any in South Carolina" makes me scream inside. Because it's not uncommon for several dogs in an area to be related to each other.

But for someone who just wants a dog? Isn't absolutely in love with a certain breed(s)? Just wants ____? Not willing to put in hours (even years) of research and effort, wait however long, for a well bred puppy? Just like a certain look? Background doesn't matter? There are way too many wonderful dogs in shelters and rescues to ignore.

I read once, maybe even in the archives of this forum, that shelters deal with the present and (good) breeders the future.
 

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Responsible breeding is about so much more than putting together two dogs of the same breed (or apparently, anything plus a poodle ... :rolleyes:)

First question - are the dogs worthy of breeding from? Are they good or better still, great examples of their breed? Are their offspring going to improve the gene pool? Have they been independently assessed either in showing or sport or work? Will the sire and dam complement each other?

Second, if they tick the first box, are the temperaments of sire and dam exemplary? Because more of a puppy's temperament is inherited than many people realise.

Then, if it is decided they would be good to breed from, both parents should be health tested. Not a quick check by a vet to say they are capable of producing a litter, proper tests like hip and elbow scoring - tests vary from breed to breed. Some dogs with extreme features (French Bulldogs for example) have additional health schemes - they should only be bred if they meet gold standard. Not that that stops BYBs who are only in it for the money, but you know, producing a dog that is actually able to breath is sort of important.

Finally a good breeder will always retain responsibility for the dogs they produce. That means taking them back at any stage in the future, for any reason. So, while some will fall through the net, in theory a dog from a good breeder shouldn't be taking up a place in a shelter.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
 

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Hi. Welcome to the forum.

This s a copy and paste of the advice I gave someone else thinking about breeding - but in their case, they wanted to breed their lab with their pit bull.

Hi. Welcome to the forum.

To breed ethically, you're not going to make a profit. Most ethical breeders have one or two litters and breed to better their chosen breed. They're not producing crosses unless there's a clear health benefit for the breed. They go to shows to get to know other ethical breeders of their chosen breed. They research their breeds and those already breeding those breeds and chooses a breeder who knows the breed inside out and back to front. They go on waiting lists and are happy to wait for the perfect bitch pup to come along. She will come from health tested parents, and her breeder will be happy to share the test results. She will be, first and foremost, a member of the family - not a breeding machine.

As she grows, the future ethical breeder will have her proven in some way - the show ring, working trials, competitive obedience, etc. She will be health tested herself - health tested - not health checked - this involves expensive x-rays and blood tests etc to screen for hereditary diseases - diseases she may not have herself, but could pass on to her puppies. Labs, for example, should have their hips and elbows, scored, eyes tested and clear, and a PRA test. And they're just the absolute minimum that an ethical breeder should be doing:
Lab Health Testing

If, at any point, a result comes back unfavourable, the ethical breeder pulls that bitch from the breeding program and has her spayed.

The Pit Bull would also need to have its hips, thyroid, and a DNA test for cerebella ataxia:
Pit Bull Health Problems and Tests

Then the stud would have to compliment the bitch in some way. Just because a breeder owns a dog and a bitch, doesn't mean they use their own dog on their bitches. Most have to research the stud's lines and choose one that may live miles away, but excels where their bitch perhaps isn't so good - temperament, for example. The stud should have the same tests done as the bitch - and no ethical stud owner who goes to the expense of doing those tests, are going to risk "diluting" those results on a bitch of a different breed, meaning that the breeders producing crosses are not ethical breeders - they're backyard breeders or puppy farmers.

Once the bitch is pregnant, the breeder is responsible for any and all expenses that occur - including, but by no means limited to - an emergency C section, which will set them back thousands of dollars/pounds. They understand that they're putting their bitch's life at risk by getting her to have a litter - pyometra (a potentially fatal infection of the womb) and mammary tumours to name but two. There's a chance she could reabsorb the puppies, or they could be stillborn. She and the pups could also die in labour, meaning the breeder has gone to all that expense and has nothing to show for it.

If she sails through labour and produces a healthy litter, then the ethical breeder will be responsible for those tiny lives - not just whilst they're with their mum, but for their entire lives. They write into their contract that if, at any moment, and for whatever reason, the new owners cannot keep their pup, they are to return that pup - whatever its age - to the breeder. If they find out that one of their pups has ended up in rescue, they move Heaven and Earth to get their baby back.

No ethical breeder has ever produced enough profit to "satisfy the IRS". They're lucky to break even. And with the numbers of labs and pit bulls in shelters up and down America, there is no ethical reason to be bringing more into the world - much less a mix of the two.



So it's a red flag that this woman, who supposedly works in rescue, is even thinking about breeding her dog, purely because some people want a purebred puppy.
 
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I mean, clearly she's not responsible.

I used to be pretty pro-rescue. I wasn't really against breeding, but definitely felt the majority of people could find shelter or purebred rescue dogs to fit their needs. I still think that many people can find a good match in a shelter dog, particularly so if they care so little that they'll just get a dog off of any breeder.

But.

Seven and a half years ago I rescued my boy, Chisum. He was 9 weeks old at the time. He changed my thought process A TON.

I used to firmly believe that "it's all in how you raise them" and now I see how absolutely incorrect and toxic that mindset is.

I used to firmly believe that puppies could not be aggressive - wrong.

After seven and a half years of working through aggression, anxiety, and reactivity; changing my life around significantly - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that my next dog will be through a reputable breeder. I know there are no guarantees in life, but if I can stack the deck in my favor, I absolutely will. I have learned so much and would love to foster reactive dogs someday, help how I can, but for my next dog I can't sign up for that. I just can't. And I don't blame other people who can't do it either.
 
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