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I have a border collie with a beautiful temperament, well behaved, active and would make a great mum
She's slender, medium hair, athletic looking and athletic. She has a stunning shiny double coat with waves which I haven't seen in many dogs.

I am looking to breed her and the border collies offered have a show dog style about them. Broader, bigger faced, some longer hair. Still beautiful and I assess for a good temperament as well

But should I breed a working dog with a show dog? Both good looking border collies but they are a different type.

What kind of border will be produced. A mix of individual show and working dogs? Or will they be a show/working dog mix.

Also what happens if I breed with a long hair vs medium hair , double coat vs single coat.

We want her to have company on rural property . Any comments appreciated.
Anna.
 

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I would breed show dog - show dog or working dog - working dog.
I suggest you don't mix them. Some people want a purebred working Border Collie, others want the perfect show dog and travel around the country to visit every show. My mother her (working) border collie has a mother with long hair and a dad with short hair. He is a mix of both.


Hope this helps! xx
 

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Your dog sounds wonderful!

If you are breeding for a pet temperament and looks I'd switch your registration to show* and go with show lines. Working lines should be bred for working quality and health only, and I think the ABCA refuses to register a mix between show and working lines. Check out the organisation guidelines to confirm, I'm no expert.

I think you can go from ABCA to AKC but not the other way round.
 

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Before I even get started, this is a bit of a hot-button topic for me, so sorry if I come off strong.
Why do you want to breed her? IMO, Border Collies should only be bred to continue outstanding working lines - that is Border Collies that are excellent at moving stock. Therefore I would NEVER suggest you breed a working dog to a show dog (or what I refer to as Barbie Collies). Is she registered with the ABCA/CBCA? How are her hips and eyes?
If you're just looking for a companion for your dog on a large property, I would suggest getting another dog, not necessarily breeding her to get puppies.
 

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I'm going to go ahead and just say don't breed her. It doesn't sound like you have any experience in breeding or working Border Collies in anything. Just because she's beautiful and has a good temperament, that doesn't mean she would make a good mother or produce healthy puppies. Border Collies are NOT for average dog owners, and they are a breed that often end up abandoned because of their strong drive. Unless you plan on creating working dogs, or even dogs for sports, I just wouldn't do it.

If you insist on breeding your BC please make sure you do every health test on them you can find. Many genetic conditions are unseen or an unaffected dog is a carrier of dangerous issues.
 

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I am going to go ahead and toss my hat in the ring and urge you not to breed her. This is probably an opinion that is going to be echoed strongly on this forum and many other dog-specific internet forums/groups.

I'm sure she's a really wonderful dog, and I'm sure she's beautiful and well behaved, but breeding your dog is a lot more difficult than just picking a stud, throwing them together, and sending puppies off to homes you picked from a list of people vying for the pups.

Working bred border collies are not a good dog for most people. They are a dog that thrives in a very specific type of home. I don't really know what the market for Border Collies is in your area, but for the most part they are not a super popular breed, and that is the case for a reason. Unless you already have a list of (suitable) homes wanting a puppy, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that you'll have no trouble at all finding good homes for what could be a pretty sizable litter. I think common litter size for BCs tend to be around 5 or 6, but there are litters as large as 10 or more, and there are also very small litters of only one or two.

Breeding is a risk for the bitch, as well. It is important to realize that bitches do die in labor, and it is not uncommon for it to be necessary to do a C-section. Bitches might reject their puppies and the pups might need to be hand fed. Pups may be born stillborn or die shortly after birth, or even after you think they will pull through. Very often, you will lose at least one or two puppies in a litter.

I don't know how many people with studs you've actually contacted, but most people with good quality studs are likely only looking to breed their dogs to a proven bitch. Many in the Working Border Collie world follow Shandula's line of thought that the only thing that makes a Border Collie worth breeding is proven working ability (which usually involves a dog who is actively working stock, or at the very least some herding trial titling). Show breeders will often only stud their dog to titled bitches with titling (if not champion titling) in their lineage. Some Border Collie people are purpose-breeding sport dogs for Agility or Flyball, and those are likely going to be looking for sport work and titles. I would be VERY weary of someone who is studding out their dog indiscriminately to unproven bitches.

Also, Border Collies can have a whole host of health issues and temperament issues are very common in the breed. Do you know this dogs pedigree at least five generations back? Do you know extensive health histories on these dogs? Do you know information about their temperament? What were these dogs doing? Pets? Working stockdogs? Herding trials of agility? Do you know have extensive information about her dam and sire, as well as any half or full siblings and littermates she had? What health testing have you done on her (hips, elbows, eyes, etc)? How old is she?

Definitely do not breed her until she's had all the per-requisite health testing recommended for Border Collies, and I would suggest really looking into all the things that can go wrong and deciding if its worth that risk. I'd also recommend looking into the basics of Border Collie genetics before doing any breeding.

I'm not someone that agrees with breeding unproven dogs. To me, a dog should be bred ONLY if they have proven that they have something to add to the breed beyond looking nice and having a pleasant enough temperament, and only dogs that you have pedigree information at least five generations back, with a pedigree that is comprised of other proven dogs and has a good health/temperament history.

Breeding two dogs who have passed all their annual vet checks and don't have any behavioral problems is not necessarily going to produce healthy or temperamentally stable puppies. You could very well be producing puppies with severe genetic reactivity, shoddy nerves, or terrible HD. A lot of health issues don't show up until later in a dogs life, so a healthy 2 or 3 year old female isn't necessarily going to be healthy 2 or 3 years down the road.

In terms of your original question: I personally do not like what AKC has done with its Border Collie and think the breed standard does not really focus on what a Border Collie is. I would never want a show-bred Border Collie, because a lot of them are being bred without any concern for drive and many are bred more for type than temperament, IMO. I don't really like any of the bench bred lines, and would always prefer a working type dog over a bench bred one of the same breed.

To me, mixing a working type Border Collie with a bench/show bred one isn't something a responsible breeder would be doing, because I can't see any utility in that mix. Either a responsible breeder is breeding a pet-type dog that looks like an AKC Border Collie (and IMO is a diluted form of the breed) or they're breeding for working ability, health, and temperament and breeding working line dogs, who have very variable looks.
 

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I too am against breeding 'just because' we love her and want her to have puppies.

I have always had Border Collies and worked them. I did breed from one bitch purely because she was a fantastic working bitch amd several farmers wanted a pup. All went to working homes and proved themselves true to the breed.

As for pedigree, my bitch didn't have one. When I got her I was told 'She is by Mac Smith's dog, Bob, that won many trials and works all day.'

I do not like showing because of what it has done to breeds where traits are bred out for some faddish look humans think is great.
 

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Also what happens if I breed with a long hair vs medium hair , double coat vs single coat.


Anna.
First, on BC coats. People like to say BCs can have long or short coats, and can have double coats or single coats. I think that's misleading. BCs can have long coats or short coats, and many have in-between coats. As far as doublep-coats, most BCs are double coat, but it comes in later (usually around age 3) and is very minimal. Some do get their double coat early and heavy, while others are single coat.

(heck, some BCs are bearded!)

There is a lot of genes involved in coat length. You can't count on crossing a long haired dog and a short haired dog to get medium coat length puppies. It's the most likely outcome, but you'll probably get a few longs or shorts.
 

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I have a border collie with a beautiful temperament, well behaved, active and would make a great mum
She's slender, medium hair, athletic looking and athletic. She has a stunning shiny double coat with waves which I haven't seen in many dogs.
When dog shows and dog showing first started, before it was all about the ribbons, it was about getting an unbiased, educated opinion of your dog.

Everyone loves their dog. But, do other people who have a lot of exposure to border collies think your dog is somehow exceptional? The temperament may be from proper early socialization and you building on that, not necessarily genetic. Find some people who are educated on BCs and see if they think your dog is exceptional before you breed it.


I am looking to breed her and the border collies offered have a show dog style about them. Broader, bigger faced, some longer hair. Still beautiful and I assess for a good temperament as well
Again, what makes these dogs exceptional? What makes these dogs a good fit for your dog? What part of your dog is complimented by the potential mates, what flaws in your dog are you addressing by this potential mate? If you can't answer these questions, you should reject that male as a candidate. If you repeatedly cannot answer these question beyond 'It's a border collie, it has the male bits necessary to make puppies, and I have access to it' then rethink the entire thing.

But should I breed a working dog with a show dog? Both good looking border collies but they are a different type.
Besides good looking, what do these dogs offer?

Note, the border collie has split into working type and show type. Some people are breeding the working type back into the show type because as it's coat and form was perfected it's drive and brain weakened. Also, some are breeding working to show because more people are getting BCs for dog sports than for conformation and ranching combined. The working plus show gives many a happy medium as far as energy, temperament, etc. (well, as medium as BCs get anyways)

What kind of border will be produced. A mix of individual show and working dogs? Or will they be a show/working dog mix.
MOST will be 'inbetweeners' but it is possible you'd get a dog that has the makeup to be a stellar herding dog, or a dog that has the conformation to be a show winner. But by far you are most likely going to get dogs whose energy, instincts, intelligence, etc falls in the middle ground.


We want her to have company on rural property . Any comments appreciated.
Anna.
The purpose of breeding a dog is to produce puppies that improve the breed. If you want her to have company on your rural property, go get a nice dog from the shelter, or a breeder, and then have both dogs fixed.
 
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