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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Everyone,

I have a 4 yr old boxer, male. I have noticed he has dropped a little weight and to me looks thinner then I would like to see. He has free access to canidae all stages dry food. All my dogs have been on this brand for 2 years and never had a problem.

Since I have noticed I have been making him a mixture of canidae dry, little bit of canned dog food just for flavor, small amount of cottage cheese and a tsp of mising link. He eats all that fine.

My thought is maybe worms? But why would one dog have a problem and not the others? I plan on worming him and the others today just in case. It's been some time since they have been wormed.

His attitude remains the same. Gets excited when people come over and then settles down.

I do plan on taking him to the vet if i can't find an answer myself. I just hate to pay $200 for something simple.

Thanks for any advice in advance!
 

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Hi Zany! The best advise I can give you is to at least speak with your vet. A lot depends on how much weight he has lost and how quickly. And often times the money spent is for something simple, it also can be an investment into treating something that maybe a lot more costly later on down the road.
But in the mean time, worming everyone might help. I've had only one dog get worms before, but when that happened I wormed every one.
Also, look at his situation. Is another dog pushing him from his food? Is he eating slower then normal? That might indicate a tooth issue. Is his coat still nice (pre Missing Link)? A dulling coat is the sign of an internal problem.
Also, his diet may not be adequate for him any longer. I think Canidae is a decent food, but to be honest the company has changed over the last couple of years and in my opinion not for the better. IMO at one point they were one of the better food for the price you paid but not so much now.
Hope this helps you out! Please keep us posted at to how he's doing.
GG
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks GG...... His coat still looks great. I moved the food to a different location he knows where it's at but I don't tend to see him over there much. Here's my next thing. I have no problem trying a different type of dog food. I just don't know what to try. It's so hard to find something decent. I've gone to Petco/Petsmart and read the ingredients but tend to find alot of fillers and stuff I don't want. The feed store that I get the canidae from does carry another brand of dog food, but I don't remember the name of it. Any advice on what to look for on the label or what to stay away from?

Part of me thinks i might just be a little over protective because he's a little leaner then I'd like. But I'd like to fix it now and not way till later.
 

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I showed and bred many Boxers and know the breed very well.
The first thing that I would do is to de worm him. That is always a good start. What are you de worming him with? The best and safest de wormer I've ever used is Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth. For a Boxer you would add 2 tablespoons to the food once a day for 2 or 3 weeks. What is even better is to add this amount to their food every day for a lifetime. You cannot over dose and it has great minerals in it. It's extremely safe to use and won't cause dogs to get sick or weight loss. It's a mechanical way of de worming instead of poisons. But be sure to get Food Grade DE. DONT get the kind that is used for filtering pools as this kind is treated differently and will kill an animal.

I feed grain free foods. The best one that I've fed my dogs so far, is Taste of the Wild High Prairie formula. They have 3 different kinds and all are good.

Boxers are known for Thyroid, Cancer and heart problems. If after you de worm him and he is still loosing weight, then I would take him into the vet and get a Thyroid test done on him. The vet will give him a full check up and bring in a stool sample with you.

If your using a poison de wormer expect him to drop a little more weight. After that he should put his weight back on. It's always good to keep all dogs on a de worming schedule.

I agree with GeorgieGirl that it could be just his food.

Good luck and keep us informed.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So I dewormed him Saturday with Pyrantal pamote (sp). I have never heard of using DE. I don't even know where to begin looking for food grade? But I'm very interested. I know that you can use DE and sprinkle it in your yard to get rid of fleas. If by feeding it would you be able to not have to use Advantage or Frontline?

I sat back and did some brain storming wth a friend of mine and looked at the overall conditions of all my dogs and here's what I kinda came up with. My male I have already stated his condition. I also have a female same age who's itchy and has chronic ear problems. I also have a 2 yr old pit mix, who's fine, but totally different bread. So I'm thinking that there problems are internal and it may be the dog food. I went shopping today looking at different types of dog foods. And after talking with a friend who's had boxers for years says that they can be sensitive to Lamb. So I found a dog food that doesn't have an lamb in it, no corn, no wheat, an no by-products...I'll tell you shopping for a new food is hard,almost everyhing has by-products! The brand is Diamond, I was not familar with the name but I liked the ingredent list. I have mixed what I had left of the canidae with the new stuff and they all seem to like it. I will keep everyone posted..

Oh yeah and they call got a oatmeal bath for the itchy skin. It's so dry, does anyone use any type of conditioner?

I have gone bonkers with horse nutrition I'm scared of what I find out with dog and cat now!
 

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Diamond is a good choice to try depending on the label. They also co pack for the Chicken Soup label as well as Costco's Kirkland label. I use the Kirkland chicken. I like the ingredient panel and the cost for the quality is amazing. I recently started using it and my dogs have done well so far.

I also agree with dch that a grain free might be a good choice for you to try if the Diamond does not work out. I use Natural Balance for my super sensitive Aussie. He gets the Venison and Sweet Potato. TOTW like dch recommended is one of the best-also a Diamond product btw. For me though TOWT is very hard to find in Nashville.
But, there are many grain free'd on the market: EVO, Wellness's Core, Natural Balance, TOTW, and Im sure Im missing a few! They only problem for some-me included!- is the cost. They tend to be pricey and I have to feed seven dogs!

But anyway please keep us posted as to how they are doing!
Cheers
GG

PS: if you ned help with horse nutrition just pm me if your intersted. I can help there too! My hubby and I owned a feed store and I have had horses with special needs diet wise, so I've been where you are!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks so much for all your input!

I actually looked at the Natural Balance but Broken Horn didn't have a large bag, and 5 lbs won't last me but maybe 2 days, I doubt even that. But I did buy it for my cats.

I will see how they do on the Diamond Naturals (they have 2 different types of lines after doing some research last night). I might also look into the Kirkland, that might be easier to get to then where I bought the Diamond from.

So far his attitude has been very purky, I will keep you all informed.
 

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Here is a link that explains the FGDE. Diatomaceous Earth - Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Health Benefits

I bought it here as it was cheaper: Fresh water, food grade diatomaceous earth

Your dogs could be reacting to the Advantage or Frontline. I don't use any of the spot on treatments as they are poisons and not good for the dogs. (or me! I get a reaction from dogs that have that stuff on them!)

Feeding FGDE will rid your dogs of internal parasites. Putting it on your dogs will rid them of external parasites. I've sprinkled it in my yard and never had a flea or a tick problem. I check my own dogs stools, bought a cheap microscope and bought the floatation stuff. Checked the dogs stools before and after using FGDE, and it got rid of ALL the internal parasites in 2 weeks. This included, round worm, coccidia and hook worms. I couldn't beleive it worked on the coccidia, but I had the proof!

I use a spray that is totally natural and has nothing that is toxic in it that is made by Bugrepel.com. It's awesome! I love the smell of it and use it on me and my dogs. Keeps all the bugs off them including mosquitoes and every other bug you can think of. I get the oil base and use it on the ears, belly and butts. I use the water base for the rest of the body.

If you use these products you'll never have the need for any poisons.

If the food store that you go to carries any of the Diamond products they can order TOTW for you. That's how I get mine as a lot of places don't carry it. So don't be afraid to ask.

I have used the Kirkland chicken based one. It is a decent diet to use and the dogs did do fine on it. I agree with Georgiegirl, the cost for the really good diets make it really pricey to feed multiple dogs! To make my feeding budget lower when funds are low, I mix the Kirkland with the TOTW. I have 10 dogs and it gets really expensive to feed what I feed them! I also throw raw food in their bowls and they all look great. The Chicken soup food is the same as the Kirkland. So if your on a budget it's better to pay the $25 per 40 lb bag than the $35 plus for the 30lb bag!

Also, you will feed less of the TOTW.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thank you for the website....I'm gonna look at ordering some. I have major problems with fleas around my house due to stray cats. Hopefully that can help my problem if I spray the whole yard!

Took Toby into the vet this morning because my friend who rents a room from my bf and I was giving me a hard time. So I decided to take him in and figured easy in easy out. Well they looked him over. Health wise fine. But found a small lump on his butt, they had room to do it right then and suggested I have it removed and tested to be sure it's nothing major. I had noticed it a few days ago but didn't put too much thought into it and thought I should mention while I was there and having him examined anyway. Hopefully it comes back fine with no worries, but I know Boxers have a tendancy to get cancer.

Anyway my $100 vet call turned into $600....Oye Vey!! Oh and they suggested I get his teeth cleaned since he will be sedated.

I'll keep ya'll updated.

Becky
 

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Vets have a way of adding more to do so they get lots of money! But a good teeth cleaning is good to do if your dog has dirty teeth. I clean my dogs teeth myself, scraping when needed but mostly brush them when needed. The best thing to do for their teeth is a big knuckle bone! Keeps all my dogs nice and sparkly! :) When I had Boxers they used to floss their teeth with the Kerries coats! LOL!

You can spread the FGDE in your home too. Sprinkle it on all the carpets and rub it in. Let it stay on the carpets for a week before vacuuming. After vacuuming, then sprinkle it on the carpets again, rub it in and leave it for another week or two. I leave it on the longer the better. It kills all the stages of fleas. You can sprinkle it all over any type of flooring. Fleas like carpeting the best, well, besides your dog(s) or cat(s)! Dust your whole yard and be sure to put it around your house too. This stuff will kill all bugs, but doesn't harm earth worms. As it says on the websites I posted here, be sure not to put it directly on flowers as you don't want to kill any honey bees.

Be sure to dust all your dogs and kitties!

I hope the tumor was just a simple cyst and nothing big. Pats to the pooches and kitties!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for the info on the FGDE! I really like the sound of that.

I know vets. They make you feel guilty for not doing certain things. But I figured a good teeth cleaning would be in order. After all he was already sedated. I do by my dogs big bones because they last long and I know it's good for them. And they don't get lodged in there mouths.

Well we are headed out of town to go camping. I'll let you all know how he does. He was excited last night as we were packing the motorhome.
 

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I know this is an older post but hope that people will still read. So here's the update. The tumor was removed, it was cancerous but the vet said it was completely removed. And to keep an eye out cuz he may aquire more, he may not. But that is not the reason for my next question....

So I went ahead and had his teeth cleaned and ever since then he's been drooling like mad!!! I have been feeding him seperate and wish he'd eat more but I'll take what I can get. It's really odd thought. He never drooled like he does now when he eats. And he acts as if eating is such a chore. So I called the vet to ask them if the teeth cleaning would have that type of side effect and they said no. I'm sooooo frustrated because he's thin, when he eats he makes a total mess all over my kitchen floor. and something isn't right. So tonight after he was done eating I opened his mouth and there was still food in it! I also asked the vet if there was a tooth problem would they have caught it?? they said yes. What else Can it be. Can his drooling possibably have something to do with maybe him having a hard time swallowing??? maybe that is why he's chewing funny??

I'd appriciate any input. I do plan on taking him back to the vet to check him out AGAIN, but I'd like to have some ideas as to go over with them while I'm there. Totally puzzled

Thanks for reading I know it's kinda drawn out but I tend to brain storm as I write.
 

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Huummm.... open his mouth and look under his tongue. Dogs have saliva glands under their tongues and he could have one under there that is clogged or infected. If that is the case it will be visible as a big blue bump. You'll see the blue bumps on both sides, but one will be bigger than the other if it's clogged or infected.

Has he been drooling since the surgery? How soon after did he start drooling? Does he only drool when he eats? Was the food on both sides of his mouth? Or just one side? Take a good look at his gums. Any swelling? Or lumps? Does his breath smell? Try to look at the roof of his mouth and at the gums along the roof of his mouth.

Did he get any vaccines before or after his surgery? What about any flea treatments?

Take his temperature and see if he has a fever.

Vets don't usually clean the teeth, the vet techs do.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well unfortunitly I'm not dealing with stage 3 mast cell cancer. Not what I wanted to hear. The out come isn't looking so hot right now. I'm forever scowering the internet trying to find something to not have to put him down. At this point in time his attitude is still good, his appitite is getting better. But he has allergic reactions to the way histamines are released in his body? Something like that.

He's on predizone, pepcid, beneidryl and simplith. I have also been putting collidal silver in his water, I just hope it will do wonders for me. I may only have a month or two but I'm sure going to try and find something to hopefully subside the effects.

I'm also not real happy with my origional vet as he never told me I needed to have in on any medication. I found out all this information by a second vet I went in for another opinion.
 

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I don't understand you. Are you saying that you are or are not dealing with stage 3 mass cell cancer? What type of cancer does he have?

Did you find out why he was drooling so much while eating?

Does he have any more tumors?

I had a Boxer with a mass cell tumor, grade 2 removed off his rear leg when he was 6 years old. He never had any other tumors and died at 10 years old from Cardio myopathy. No cancer. I never put him on any drugs.

Pred is a treatment that should only be used short term. Pred will make him eat more, but will also knock down his immune system. Leaving his body more deffenceless. Pred also knocks down all the Vit. B complexes in the body. And causes thyroid problems.

I would get your boys Thyroid tested too. That way if it's low, even a low normal, it would be very good for him to be given Thyroid replacement. And definitely add Vit. B complex, 50 mgs 2 times a day. Be sure he eats something first as Vit. B pills can cause stomach upset.

Is there a reason you have him on Pepcid? Is he gassy? Does he have blood in his stools? Does he burp alot or blap up water or food?

Why is he on Benedryl? What is simplith?

It would be good for you and your boy to see a holistic vet. One that uses herbs and vitamins is the best. I myself, don't believe in holistic treatments, never seen them work. But I'm a firm believer in Vitamins and herbal supplementation. I've seen that work!

I had a Boxer that had the worst form of cancer you can get, a heart based tumor. It was horrible and after draining his pericardial sack, they told me he might live for one month. There was no way of treating that type of cancer. Well, I did my research and put him on Herbs and vitamins and he lived for another 7 months! When I finally had to put him down as draining the pericardium didn't work any more, I had an autoptsy done. The tumor was not only around the aorta, but it took up the entire right vetrical of his heart! All together the tumor was as big as my fist!

Anyhow, be careful of over drugging him. It may be worse than doing the natural route.

Good luck with your boy, and give him a big kiss on the smoocher for me!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
DCH I want to thank you for all the information you are throwing my way. I really appriciate it.

He has stage 3 mass cell cancer. One tumor was removed from his anal area and I haven't seen any others pop up as of yet. However I don't know if he has any internal as I have opted out of an exray.

The drooling is from leasons on his tongue, He's is still drooling but not nearly as much as he was. When he's finished eating he tends to have food, that has been stuffed to the sides of his mouth, fall out.

The Simplith (sp) is an antibiotic I believe. This was given to help heal the sores he has from the effects of too much histamine release. The Pepcid is for ulcers, and the Benedryl is for an anti histamine.

I have come across a website
http://www.herbal-treatments.com/dog_cancer_mast_cell.htmlhttp://www.herbal-treatments.com/dog_cancer_mast_cell.htmlhttp://www.herbal-treatments.com/dog_fibrosarcoma.htmlhttp://www.herbal-dogkeeping.com/dog_osteosarcoma_bone_cancer.html
http://www.herbal-treatments.com/dog_maritime_pine_bark.html


Although they are located in Austriala, they have been extremely helpful in helping me, help toby, via phone and email. I have ordered this so that I can use it instead of the chemical treatments. I'm also a believer in herbal supps. I should be receiving it today or tomorrow since we have paid for expidiated shipping.

His attitude has been much better and he's eating a ton. I know that the pred causes this but he needs as much weight as I can get him to gain. He's now down to 60 lbs reg weight is 75. He's been eating very good for the last 7 days. I'm not sure how quickly I'll see signs of weight gain but I'm hoping it's soon.

I hope that he will outlive the odds he was given. The vet told me unless I do chemo he may only have a few weeks. But if you look at him (minus the weight) he's in good attitude and happy.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So I can't find the edit key this morning....You mentioned using a vit B complex to help the immune system....That is what the pine bark is for. So I believe I have that covered? I don't want to over do something and end up causing more problems.
 

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Your welcome!

I would still add the Vit. B complex. Unfortunately, that website doesn't say how much of the herbs are actually in their mix and what and how much vit. content is included in each dosage.

I'm not one for mixes like this, but I'm sure it won't hurt. I just like to know how many milligrams are in each thing.

It's why I like using fresh dried herbs. For example, one cup of Ecinacea (sp?) tea, is 750 mgs.

What did the Oncology report on the tumors, say? Did your vet do blood work on your dog? What were the results?

Did your vet give you a reason of why he wants to do Chemo?

Good luck with your boy!
 

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I will definitly look into adding the vit B, Is there a difference between vit b and vit b complex?

I have the repot at my moms house. I'll bring it home and type it up. Because at first they typed up what may or may not be a cancerous tumor....But the origional vet who removed the tumor told me that it was cancerous but they had removed everything. He never said that I needed to look into further treatment, which is why I didn't. It wasn't until I had the reports faxed and had another vet look at them to find out the severity of the problem. She said I could do Chemo or radiation but it would only give me 3-4 months. To me it's not worth putting him through that, not to mention the expense.

I'm going to do what I can herbally and when he no longer has a quality of life then I will put him down. But for the time being, he's eating good, excited, happy. And knows we are packing to go on a camping trip, so he's real excited, in and out of the motorhome all day yesterday making sure he wouldn't be left behind.
 
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