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Every time I think I'm getting the hang of anticipating Cobber's biting jags, I find out I seem to know nothing.

This time we were working on some training. He usually has "touch" down pat - touching his nose to my palm - so I was mixing things up with "give me your paw" and even "roll over" from a down. To get him back up I use "touch" but he started biting instead of bumping my hand with just his nose.

So I don't reward and try again with the other hand. Same thing, he touches by biting my hand, basically touching with his nose AND his upper and lower teeth biting. Then I start getting frustrated, he gets more hyped. I want to end on a positive but any command and he bites. I walk away, he comes after my ankles, etc.

The thing is, he'd just had a long nap so it didn't seem like a tired-cranky meltdown.

And after 4 straight days together, I'm a little frazzled. 90% of the holiday has been fantastic, but the other 10% - holy smoke! I feel like I have turned into a whiney baby myself! I just start pleading with him to not bite me anymore. :p then I start taking it personally like obviously he doesn't actually like me, etc.

Ok, so the point here. When training devolves and I can't get even a simple sit to work just to end on an up, what is the best out?

And when he's doing touch but including teeth with his nose, how do I correct so he doesn't shut down on that trick completely?

Sorry, me venting again... He's such a wonderful dog! I feel like I'm the baby here, not him.


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Awww....
Puppy mouthing really can be very difficult to handle and train!
So don't feel bad!

Maybe take a step back and really think about when he bites (what is triggering him to mouth?) as well as what it is you are doing/not doing (both in the moment and also training to resolve the issue).

This time we were working on some training. He usually has "touch" down pat - touching his nose to my palm - so I was mixing things up with "give me your paw" and even "roll over" from a down. To get him back up I use "touch" but he started biting instead of bumping my hand with just his nose.

So I don't reward and try again with the other hand. Same thing, he touches by biting my hand, basically touching with his nose AND his upper and lower teeth biting. Then I start getting frustrated, he gets more hyped. I want to end on a positive but any command and he bites. I walk away, he comes after my ankles, etc.

The thing is, he'd just had a long nap so it didn't seem like a tired-cranky meltdown.

And after 4 straight days together, I'm a little frazzled. 90% of the holiday has been fantastic, but the other 10% - holy smoke! I feel like I have turned into a whiney baby myself! I just start pleading with him to not bite me anymore. :p then I start taking it personally like obviously he doesn't actually like me, etc.

Ok, so the point here. When training devolves and I can't get even a simple sit to work just to end on an up, what is the best out?

And when he's doing touch but including teeth with his nose, how do I correct so he doesn't shut down on that trick completely?

Sorry, me venting again... He's such a wonderful dog! I feel like I'm the baby here, not him.
A few thoughts...
Keep your training sessions extremely short. Sounds like Cobber is mouthing when he gets overstimulated. That can happen even when he is well rested.

So instead of asking for a lot of behaviors, one after the other, ask for just a few and then end your session. Might mean for now that you only grab 5 treats and ask for 5 behaviors. But the more frequently you have a successful training session, the better you are going to feel about Cobber and training. In turn you also prevent Cobber from practicing the behavior, get the results you want, and set him up to succeed.;)

Also, if he does mouth, at this point I would end the session. Plain and simple. You don't want to reinforce his mouthing with attention and if he's mouthing, he's too over stimulated to really work/learn anyway. Take note of how long the session was and anything else that could explain why he is suddenly mouthing. Be sure to shorten your next session and address any issues leading up to him mouthing.

If I'm recalling your past threads correctly, it seems that you are going to need to come up with a way to get away from Cobber when he decides to go after your ankles. I would try putting up some baby gates so that you can step over them and walk away. Train near one so that you can get away quickly and without a lot of fuss should he mouth.


And you may have already seen these vids in the past/worked on these exercises, but were I in your situation, this is where I would be focusing a great deal of time.:)

And just a method you may want to adjust for your situation with ankle attacks.;)
 

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Thanks! I watched those again because I've forgotten bits mentioned in each. I know consistency is a problem for me because when it first starts, I redirect with a toy and basically hope to fix the situation but then I usually end up dealing with it too long and it very quickly devolves into worse behavior so I'm not helping the situation any.

Another problem is that it starts right out of the crate. Not when I open the door or if I reach in but as soon as he's out and I go to buckle in his leash, his head whips around and he's on my hand or wrist. My fingers don't work quickly with the tiny (for me, I'm a 6'-tall woman) clip. I need to get smarter and have the clip opened before I even let him out, the maybe I can clip it on before the teeth and jaws start going...

He's in daycare all day and the humans there love him and say there's no mouthing problem at all, so it really does seem to be just me :(

We had a great night on the couch before bed last night. I simply talked to him, rewarded good quiet behavior and didn't touch him at all. But it makes me sad to not touch my puppy at all. I really hope he grows out of this so I can show him *some* affection someday.
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When Quest just isn't getting a behavior/cue and we need to end on a good note, I just reward for eye contact. It's a quick thing for him to do. It can be a glance or a held gaze, depending on his frustration level.
 
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Don't beat yourself up over the mouthing problem only being with you-Koda lets me do stuff to her that she'd never let a stranger do (kisses on the head, hugs, etc...xD She's so good for me) but that also goes with some of the bad stuff too, because she's more comfortable with me than a stranger so she's on better behaviour with them than me. She still loves you :) She just needs some time and direction so she can learn how to love you in a way you prefer.
 

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Thanks! I watched those again because I've forgotten bits mentioned in each. I know consistency is a problem for me because when it first starts, I redirect with a toy and basically hope to fix the situation but then I usually end up dealing with it too long and it very quickly devolves into worse behavior so I'm not helping the situation any.
It might be better to just walk away (again so that you don't unintentionally reward Cobber and also to prevent him from practicing the behavior) rather than trying to redirect and fix the issue. And he will learn that teeth on skin = fun stopping/Mom walking away.
At least that's where I would be with the mouthing at this point.

Or if you are determined to end a training session on a good note try asking for eye contact (or another easy behavior that does not require physical contact) like Questsmom suggested.

Another problem is that it starts right out of the crate. Not when I open the door or if I reach in but as soon as he's out and I go to buckle in his leash, his head whips around and he's on my hand or wrist. My fingers don't work quickly with the tiny (for me, I'm a 6'-tall woman) clip. I need to get smarter and have the clip opened before I even let him out, the maybe I can clip it on before the teeth and jaws start going...
Does this only happen right out of the crate?
Are you using a marker when training and does Cobber actually know what it means?

Have you done much with the technique shown in kikopup's video ( the second one I posted)? She started out with the Dal pup and first just moved her hand toward his head but did not actually touch him then clicked and treated for no mouthing.
That's how I would take care of biting when putting on the leash. Clicking and treating for no mouthing as you slowly up your criteria from just reaching toward his collar up to grabbing the collar and clipping on the leash.

Oh! One more thought! A few weeks ago I met someone who taught her dog to actually put her neck/collar against her hand so she could hold the collar. IIRC she did that because her dog did not like her collar being grabbed and would mouth. You could teach Cobber to do the same. Once targeting your hand is solid (you'll probably want him to actually lean a bit and maintain contact with your hand) you can pair it with Kikopup's method (clicking for the lack of mouthing) and add in clipping on the leash.;)
I'll have to look around to see if someone has a youtube video of this.
 

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Thanks, everyone!

Kmes, no, it's definitely not every time out of the crate. But just yesterday and this morning, I specifically noticed that it happened as I was getting him leashed for our 2nd trip of the morning (the very first trip, he's usually still half asleep and cuddly). After the whole long weekend, maybe I was just noticing more than usual, but it bothered me that right off the bat this morning, here we go again. And he really needs to go out at this point, so I'm not comfortable recrating or leaving him by moving away with what's usually another pee and poop in him.

Regarding the training, being able to grab his collar is part of the recall work in both puppy classes. When he's in a good training mode, he's perfect at it and there's never any mouthing. It's when he doesn't feel like doing the training work that things go wrong :)

I have to keep working on it and being more consistent with it. I apologize for coming here when things aren't working and I'm getting so frustrated. I'm really good at venting. ;)

And, truthfully, I'm thrilled he's not doing mouthing with anyone else! That would actually make me feel worse, like it's an even bigger problem than it already is.

Thanks for the idea of eye contact as a final training move to end on a positive note if things aren't going well. He does that all the time, so it would be a very easy one.

I appreciate all the help! We will keep working on this!!
 
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