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I have an 8 month old Black Mouth Cur. He stays out with me most of the day while I work since I telecommute. Throughout the day he will ask me to go outside and potty. If I go outside the home and crate him, I potty him before leaving. He's on a strict feeding schedule (once at 7am, 2nd at 2pm) and water is also highly restricted during food times. I will potty him before I crate him for evenings out. When I return home > 1 hour we potty right away. If I come home from outside < 1 hour, we do not potty immediately. He will play around the home and all will be fine for 30-40 minutes. When I take him to the door to put his leash on, he will look up at me with a guilty stare and pee the floor despite knowing he's going out and never ask before.

I've done it all, bell ringing (which he never took to), praising, scheduling. I am DONE! Can I say that? He's physiologically capable of holding his bladder 8 hours overnight, but he cannot hold it around 1 hour? Tonight I lost it. He peed the floor and i screamed NO! grabbed him by the scruff and tossed him out the door and pinned him down, putting his face in his urine and rubbing it there and slapped him with his leash until he cried and peed himself again. I AM BEYOND DONE WITH THIS DOG AND HIS OBSTINATE, PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR!

I think that all this positive reinforcement is too "nice" and he thinks that it's just OK to do whatever he wants because mom doesn't punish him for the actions. He is going to remain in his crate now day in an day out until I figure out what to do about this. I will gladly give him away or let him run off. I'm done spending thousands (already I have paid almost $2K on him) on training and getting no improvement.
 

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Maybe investigate submissive urination, notice I said "maybe".

You sound like a pretty uptight individual and I appreciate you are at your wit's end.

Stressful moments WITH humans will trigger submissive urination in some dogs. Give it a quick search and see what you think.
 

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I agree, it sounds like submissive urination, or maybe from excitement as in "I'm so excited I just peed myself.". It is totally not his fault, he cannot help doing it.

There are however a few things you can try.

When you let him out of his crate wait till he isn't banging around with excitement to let him out, and once out ignore him for a minute or two.

When you leash him wait till he is calm to snap the leash on, try doing it away from the door as long as the area you do it on is not carpeted in case there is an accident.

Do NOT react to the accident. Remember he cannot help it, he's not capable of stopping it. By reacting to it you are making the situation worse. It gets to be a cycle.

If all else fails either put down some puppy pads and leash him up over them so that the accident is contained and easily picked up, or put a belly band on him it acts like a diaper. Take it off when he is outside.

This breaks my heart "He peed the floor and i screamed NO! grabbed him by the scruff and tossed him out the door and pinned him down, putting his face in his urine and rubbing it there and slapped him with his leash until he cried and peed himself again." All you did was abuse your dog, that's it plain and simple. You've taught him to fear you, and you did so for something that was totally beyond his control. Again such treatment makes submissive urination 100% worse and you may not find your dog pees when you approach him.
 

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This is an awful situation, sounds like the dog may be better off at a responsible rescue organization, please don't lock the dog in a crate constantly, it's likely that will cause issues and reduce the chance of being adopted.
 

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The dog is peeing in the house because of YOU. So instead of rubbing the dog's face in is own urine, rub your face in it for not setting your dog up for success. I normally would suggest let your dog out more often, but your reaction towards your dog irks me and I will say to rehome the dog yesterday.
 

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Hey, some people get to their wit's end, I've been there as a matter of fact my very first dog was a submissive wizzer (d), it rather pissed me off ( pun kind of intended).

Yeah, doing the rub the nose in it routine probably doesn't help a dog that pees when it has this mostly TEMPORARY situation. A person can make it more or less temporary if they choose.

es3040 posted looking for a solution. I'm guessing if es3040 makes a difference through some changes interacting with the dog, things will mellow out and get to where expectations are recognized. Dogs are not plug and play, that's what makes them great, you gotta work with them and figure them out.

Anyway, as far as the "I think that all this positive reinforcement is too "nice" and he thinks that it's just OK to do whatever he wants because mom doesn't punish him for the actions." If you are going to make corrections of a different nature, choose them wisely. If it is submissive urination, a harsh correction might actually make the situation worse. FWIW, what I did with my pisser was basically be indifferent to the dog upon coming home, no excitement, no attitude, no nothing and it was tough because the dig was jacked to see me. I just went to the door but never transitioned the dog onto the leash just guided her outside with hand on collar and then leashed him up outside. Dog still peed but at least it was outside. The problem didn't last long.
 

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Tonight I lost it. He peed the floor and i screamed NO! grabbed him by the scruff and tossed him out the door and pinned him down, putting his face in his urine and rubbing it there and slapped him with his leash until he cried and peed himself again. I AM BEYOND DONE WITH THIS DOG AND HIS OBSTINATE, PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR!
Hey, some people get to their wit's end, I've been there as a matter of fact my very first dog was a submissive wizzer (d), it rather pissed me off ( pun kind of intended).
So you think it's alright for some one to lose it by doing the above?? I don't care how frustrated a person could be, there is no excuse in causing harm to a dog or any animal or person for that matter for such a small problem that usually can be corrected rather easily. This person physically manhandled the dog, tossed him out the door and hit him with the leash.....that is never right in my books. I am sure many of the people here know that a leash can hurt similar to a whip. I really hope you didn't terrify your dog when you "lost it"....

Another point is that most people that have pups feel defeated at some point yet again I will reiterate, physical harm is not the answer and quite frankly a disgusting behaviour.
 

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I am not uptight and I'm not a dog abuser. I'm an owner who's spent thousands of dollars on training and solutions that 8 months later are NOT working. Last night, yes I totally lost it. I'm so sorry I'm not so saintly and amazing fantastic person like everyone here. I don't know how everyone does it, it must be such a burden to be always right and perfect like you guys that you cannot understand how cleaning your dog's pee all the time is wearing and exhausting when you've exhausted every option how to curb it over almost the course of a year. That being said, I've received little actual recommendation for my plea for help and a lot of shaming.

This dog does NOT live in a crate, he's free in the house all day where he stays next to me while I work, eating his organic pet food and playing with a hundred toys. We go in and out of the home without this problem except in instances where he will pee the floor before we go out after i've come home. It makes no sense to me, because he sleeps (in my bed) for 8 hours with no accidents, and he can stay in his room 5-8 hours with no accidents. But if I come home an hour or less, he will pee the floor. And yes, when I'm not home he stays in his room because he will scream like a maniac and destroy the home if I leave him out (maybe you all think this is abusive too, I should carpet the home in feather down for his pleasure?). This is when he's having issues peeing on the floor in front of the door. I don't leash him because he doesn't need it, I open the door and he will wait for me (during the day) and we'll walk around and he'll do his biz.

And no, I'm not rubbing my face in his pee and I'm not sending him back to a rescue shelter. If you can't appreciate someone at their breaking point, please take your self-righteousness and shove it.
 

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es3040 posted looking for a solution. I'm guessing if es3040 makes a difference through some changes interacting with the dog, things will mellow out and get to where expectations are recognized. Dogs are not plug and play, that's what makes them great, you gotta work with them and figure them out.

THANK YOU! Finally, someone who took the real message from what I was saying....
 

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Put a tab, (very short leash) on your dog to wear indoors so that when it's time to go out you can just go out the door with zero fuss & hesitations -- leave no time to pee.
The door incident was probably pretty scary for your dog, so get him out quick & happy. Let him drag a leash in the house, leave shoes outside (so you don't need to delay to get them on), whatever it takes to make getting outside quick and smooth and stress free for both of you.
Yes, it does sound like submissive urination, so fussing, commanding, delaying to get shoes on, finding the leash, clipping the leash, getting him to sit--anything might trigger the stress and peeing in that spot.
If you really can't handle it, rehoming is a valid option.
 

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I'm not going to repeat any of the sentiments above because I'm sure you feel bad enough about what you did. It is easy to lose your temper, and it only takes a second to then feel bad about it for quite some time. And, more to the point, it obviously didn't work, since he peed again.
I think he might be excitement/submissive urinating as well because of when it occurs. My Aussie used to pee on guests when they came because he was SO excited. I encouraged everyone to essentially ignore him when they came in and the behavior quickly extinguished.
Now, to your post, I just have a few questions between your first post and your last post to get some clarification.
1. When you come home after being away for less than an hour, you don't take him out right away, and then he pees when you take him out to potty after 30-40 minutes of playtime? If you took him out right away would he still pee near the door?
2. Do you put the leash on or not? In your first post you say while you are getting it ready, he pees, but in the last post you say he doesn't need it? I'm wondering if the pottying has something to do with the leash? Do you use leash corrections or anything like that when you walk him? Also, after your harsh correction last night, there might be some more fallout with this leash, so maybe just be aware of that.

Finally, don't take it personally. He's not passive-aggressive or doing it out of spite, dogs just don't have that level of thinking. That fact that he isn't also defecating in the house (he isn't right?) makes me think there is some submissive peeing occurring here.
 

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Take the dog to the vet to rule out any medical issues.

My heart breaks for this dog and I hope he finds a soft place to land.
 

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I was specifically referring to this:

He is going to remain in his crate now day in an day out until I figure out what to do about this. I will gladly give him away or let him run off.
I've been close to this point too and can understand getting so frustrated, but if you are at the point of putting him in a crate all day and night and considering letting him run off, then it is time time to look at whether rehoming might be best for both of you. It's not great for you to be so stressed either. Sometimes it just doesn't work out, there's no shame in that.

Unfortunately it's hard to tell if someone is just letting off steam or actually going to do this through written text. You've got some great advice from others here to try and work things out.
 

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Can you explain more about the training methods that you have used with your dog? There are various approaches to training, and I'd like to get a better sense of what you have tried, what has worked, and what hasn't worked.
 

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No he doesn't need a leash, but I live in an apartment building and need to put shoes on and a coat (if it's cold) -- so there's a bit of dressing involved before going out. I started looking into the submissive peeing. He's only peeing, no #2. Actually, he's never gone #2 in the house. I tried to train him to pee on the balcony because the flooring is concrete and easy to clean, but he won't do that. I tried wee pads but he only eats them instead of using them. Maybe I will just take him out immediately as well after a short time out? But to me I don't understand why he can't hold it because he can go hours at sleep time or when I'm away for longer. Does anyone think he is just associating come home with going right out despite the length of time? Still....even after I come home after brief spells he'll run around, play, eat, and then when i'm thinking OK --- he's had some water, we should go out, he pulls that little stunt!! AARGH!

And no, he's not in the crate all day and I didn't let him run away. I was venting my frustration. Don't listen to Timber who wrote 15 replies one after the other instead of 1 full, cogent post bashing me. They have no idea who I am and probably use this board to validate their life when they're not putting people down.
 

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@ SUSAN LYNN --- We've done "NO" and immediately outdoors and lavish praise, I've trained him to use the bell, which he rings to try to manipulate me into taking him out only to play and not pee (he would never actually use it to pee, he'd come up at look at me and make noise), we've done sprays, toilet schedules, food restrictions, in and out of crate to potty and leaving him without fussing (Bye doggie, hi doggie!) to not get him overly excited into peeing, wee pads, potty patch, 4 week off site training to work on potty training at a phenomenal $1,500...a lot, believe me...a lot. This angry frustration isn't because of a hair trigger personality or temper :(
 

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Take the dog to the vet to rule out any medical issues.

My heart breaks for this dog and I hope he finds a soft place to land.
Vet ruled out UTI, incontinence, he's fully neutered and he's 8 months. Even the vet a stumped since she said he should be able to be fully continent for 5-8 hours and just advised more training.
 

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I'm not going to repeat any of the sentiments above because I'm sure you feel bad enough about what you did. It is easy to lose your temper, and it only takes a second to then feel bad about it for quite some time. And, more to the point, it obviously didn't work, since he peed again.

@ SHANDULA --- No, I wasn't proud of myself and yes, I regret it because he's a really good dog this issue aside. I totally lost sense of myself because he's very smart and obedient on/off leash and to me, I just couldn't equate with that level of smarts and obedience but STILL he pees indoors? So, yes, I equated it with spite, especially since he's toilets just fine all the other times except this times when just come out of his crate from my absence. Maybe it's anxiety, too? I don't know. He's too old for these shenanigans and he ASKS, that's what really drove it into me. He knows to ask. And usually when I take him out after wards it's because I think he needs to go based on length of time, if he's taken water/food, etc and not because he's asking because I don't WANT the accidents. A trainer told me he felt I took him out TOO MUCH because he can hold it, but I told him if that's his perception, he needs to come clean the pee!
 
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