[NovaAndBacon]

I'm quite worried about my pup, Nova. She is a beautiful, 7 month old, Border Collie/Black Lab. Due to some issues before my girlfriend and I adopted her, she tends to be a bit timid but 2 days ago, she started acting odd. She is suddenly terrified of the ceiling, or the general direction of "up" as she has cowered and looked up outside as well.

2 Days ago, my girlfriend (Kelli), was in the living room with Nova, our 4 month old Texas Healer, and the cat. Nova, a house trained dog, got up on the couch and started to pee. Kelli scolded her (a good yell but nothing intense) and picked her up to take her outside, yet Nova never clenched her pee and did it the whole way out. She was then put in her cage for a while.

After this incident, Nova has been terrified of the living room. When she is forced to go in there, she stares at cover for a light fixture mount in the ceiling and runs around the room cowering. She has even climbed over the couch and gotten stuck between the bed and the wall twice. Yesterday, it was only in the living room but today, it was all over the house and even happened once when she was outside.

We thought it might be critters in the ceiling but neither of the other animals, including a good hunting cat, notice anything (and she did it outside). My girlfriend thinks it may be canine epilepsy but I'm not convinced.

If anyone has any idea of what is going on, please help. I'm worried about her as she is hardly eating. We are trying to avoid an expensive vet visit until we have a better idea if it is necessary.

Thank you,
-Joe

 

[pappi pup]

I would get her to the vet ASAP. She could very well have a urinary tract infection, which is quite painful. There might be something else going on that has caused her to quit eating, definitely needs to be checked out. Not good for a growing dog to not eat. It is impossible to know how she is connecting the dots when she is in pain or uncomfortable.

Regarding the pee incident--I hope you realize now that this is not the way to handle this type of problem. Scolding will just make her upset, and afraid to pee at all in front of anyone. She can't understand why she is being yelled at, and there is a very good chance she has no control over it at this time. Also you don't want to use the crate as punishment, it needs to always be a positive place. Really no way to effectively "punish" a housebreaking failure. Look for the reasons, and don't let it happen, and reward her for letting you know she needs to go and going outside.

 

[KayWilson]

My thinking is the punishment for peeing did it. It doesn't sound at all like an epileptic seizure, as she would have had a seizure (falling down, possibly paddling, stiffness), or some kind of noticeable neuro-episode, and wouldn't only have them in the living room.

As you said, your dog is already on the fearful side; yelling doesn't help this. I too have a BC/Lab mix (mine being 17 months) and is on the fearful side. With her I've stopped yelling all together because she's sensitive enough to gage my emotions without it. If she hears yelling she tends to shut down and hide, so instead I take on a mocking tone and use her middle name (very mom-like ); example: "Tessa Mae...what am I going to do with you?" (insert dramatic sigh). It surprising works.

As the previous poster mentioned, you should have her checked by a vet, as previously house broken pets don't pee in the house for no reason. She may have a UTI or she may be experiencing submissive urination. Either way, instead of yelling just take her outside. No punishments, no yelling, no crate. When we do sudden punishments, the dog gets scared. So if she pees in the house again, bite your tongue and guide her out; if she pees outside, have a happy dance and jackpot treats.

 

[kelly528]

This is why punishment is considered a very ineffective learning tool by modern science: Its estimated that on average a punishment needs to follow an action by 0.7 seconds for the punishment to be associated with that action: sort of like a dog that won't get into a car because he got carsick half an hour into the ride last time. OR as you saw... you may wind up punishing an animal you didn't intend to!

'Smart' breeds like labs and collies are all the more difficult because sometimes it only takes them one experience to learn: 'I shouldn't hang out in the living room because last time I did it, my mommy shouted at me.'

Get the 4 month old to the vet, and counter-condition the 7 month old to the room: tons of great treats whenever she is in there. Take small steps at a time. While training them in the future, use rewards instead of shouting: instead of accidentally punishing dog B, you'll make them wonder what the heck dog A was doing to get that great treat