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Discussion Starter #1


family dropped him off, got a phone-call - their dog died at a nearby vet-clinic after efforts to resuscitate failed.
Of course the dog that killed him was ID'ed as a 'pitbull'. // Whether that's true or not, breed-ID seems beside the point - How did an unsecured larger dog get the opp to not merely bite, but kill a smaller dog?

Dogs shouldn't be loose in the grooming area, ever; all dogs should be in a crate / cube-cage, on a grooming-table with a noose AND a groomer beside the table, secured in a bath-tub with a BATHER beside the tub, or on the way to or from 1 of the 3, on a leash.
So how did this happen? - poor leash handling? Somebody dropped a leash?
What?

Someone - IMO - screwed-up, or this couldn't have occurred.
No details have been released.
- terry

 

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I mean, if they were bathing the dog the floor could have been wet, and if he saw the other dog and lunged, it would be pretty easy to slip. Accidents happen. Maybe it was handler error, but maybe it could have been a really unfortunate freak accident.

This is why I don't think it's unreasonable for rescues and shelters to euthanize dogs for dog aggression. (To clarify, I'm not talking about dogs that are merely reactive, fear aggressive, or get into fights, I'm talking about dogs that clearly want to maul or kill others). There's no such thing as a "dog free" home because you have to take your aggressive dog to the vet, possibly groomer, boarding kennel, out on walks, etc.
 

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I feel as though we are not getting the entire story with this one. I would be interested to hear the story from the perspective of one of the groomers who were there. It's sad that the other dog was ID'ed as a pit as it's not truly a reflection of the breed (grooming salons are high stress situations that usually bring out the worst in a dog).

Having worked in a PetSmart Grooming salon (I was cross-trained and would fill in when they needed help) I know how stressful they can be, and since there has been even more pressure put on groomers and bathers to turn and burn dogs ($$$) I know some safety has fallen to the wayside. Also, as it has been speculated, the training to be in the grooming salon is minimal and there really isn't any time to teach employees how read body language and deduce if a dog should be in that environment to begin with.

It's a sad situation, hopefully it brings about some change.
 
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We can't know how it happened, more info is needed and we might not ever get the full story. But attacks can happen so fast. I'm not saying a worker wasn't at fault, but what if they were merely walking the dogs (on lead) one past the other or something?

Considering Bichons are toy dogs, it's not impossible to think that fatal injuries could be inflicted by a bigger dog. If the dog bit in a critical place or the dog bit and shook the dog around, a lot of people are not prepared to stop an attack. We can't know, it's tragic, but a medium sized dog biting a toy dog can be lethal, very different from medium size biting another medium size dog and just needing to be cleaned up.

I feel as though we are not getting the entire story with this one. I would be interested to hear the story from the perspective of one of the groomers who were there. It's sad that the other dog was ID'ed as a pit as it's not truly a reflection of the breed (grooming salons are high stress situations that usually bring out the worst in a dog).
Dogs are mis ID all the time, so perhaps it wasn't a Pit Bull. Though in this situation it very well could be, when you drop your dog to be groomed they are given info, including breed.

I can't agree that it isn't an "accurate reflection" maybe drawing negativity isn't great, but since Pit Bulls are dog aggressive to varying degrees and can have a high prey drive (toy size dog), it's like saying a herding breed pushing and nipping other animals isn't an accurate reflection of said breed, or a **** hound treeing or killing ***** isn't an accurate reflection of that breed. In the wrong hands, uneducated careless, irresponsible or ill prepared things like this happen with Pit Bulls.
 

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Statistically my guess is its a very small percentage of Pit Bulls out there that are ever involved in aggressive attacks. The problem with Pit Bulls, regardless how small a percentage, because of their jaw anatomy, when they do chose to bit, it immediately becomes a life and death event. I know Pits, that are great pets, and some breeds that are not known for their aggressiveness that are just plain nasty all the time.
 

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Considering Bichons are toy dogs, it's not impossible to think that fatal injuries could be inflicted by a bigger dog. If the dog bit in a critical place or the dog bit and shook the dog around, a lot of people are not prepared to stop an attack. We can't know, it's tragic, but a medium sized dog biting a toy dog can be lethal, very different from medium size biting another medium size dog and just needing to be cleaned up.

No doubt. Mismatch in sizes runs a risk even when all is friendly between dogs. I know there are many people who have mismatched sizes in their packs but all it takes is a larger breed accidentally stepping on a toy breed while playing and maybe doing some serious damage or worse. Personally, I don't allow my GSD to engage in certain "spirited" play such as chasing down a ball or frisbee with smaller breeds.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Pitties' jaws are the same as other breeds.

Statistically, my guess is, it's a very small percentage of Pit Bulls... that are ever involved in aggressive attacks.

The problem with Pit Bulls, regardless how [few bite], because of their jaw anatomy, when they do chose to bite, it immediately becomes a life and death event.
I know Pits that are great pets, & some breeds... not known for aggression that are just plain nasty, all the time.

Like most other breeds, the vast majority of Pitties live their lives out & never bite anyone badly - minor nips or a single puncture when provoked, sure, but knowing how much cr*p ppl pull, & the dumb stunts, rude & intrusive or scary behavior by humans, it's impressive to me how FEW bites dogs deliver.

But Pitbull jaws are no different than other breeds' - they don't lock; they have big muscles on their jaws, necks, & connecting to their chests, but so do many other breeds. Their BEHAVIOR can contribute to the level of damage, if they grip & shake! - but other breeds do that, too.

any dog 30# or more can deliver a severe bite to an adult human; depending on where the bite is, a single bite can be fatal - the foreign businessman who was bitten by a Moscow street-dog that he tried to kick was a case in point, the dog punctured his femoral artery & he bled out, right there on the street.

Any dog of whatever size can severely injure a young child - a Pomeranian is the smallest breed that i know of, to be involved in a fatality.
The baby who was killed was about 6-MO, & was left in the care of a 15-YO girl, while Mom & Dad went out of town! - :eek: everything about that case was weird.

- terry


 

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I love dogs as much as anyone on this forum, but regardless of breed, they are dogs, and have instincts and trigger points, that can be difficult to predict. Any dog needs to fully under the control of its owner, anything less is irresponsible. That means when out and about, they are leashed, or if not leashed in a securely fenced area, at all times.
 

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Statistically my guess is its a very small percentage of Pit Bulls out there that are ever involved in aggressive attacks. The problem with Pit Bulls, regardless how small a percentage, because of their jaw anatomy, when they do chose to bit, it immediately becomes a life and death event. I know Pits, that are great pets, and some breeds that are not known for their aggressiveness that are just plain nasty all the time.
I'd have to say that of the millions of Pit Bulls, that's probably very true statistically. Most don't make headlines.

On the other hand I don't know if I agree with "jaw anatomy" rather it is instinct terrier style grab, hold and shake, that hold can be kept for a long time. That's due to the dogs will, not any special has anatomy. I don't know if you automatically class that as life or death, a small dog or small animal maybe, but even larger dogs that bite and release could cause fatal injuries to a anal dog. If it was a Pit and another medium sized breed, then I don't see it being life or death, there will probably be some punctures, swelling, bruising at the bite site, but it wouldn't normally be life or death in situation where people are around to stop the fight.
 

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Many breeds "grip and shake" but not near as many " grip and hold ". That is where the defining difference is, as in a hardwired trait.
Sighthounds will grip, hold, and shake. And they have a jaw structure that is dramatically different than a PitBull or bully type breed. Instinctually with sighthounds they are either taking down a predator who will fight back if they let go, or quick running prey who will take off if it has the chance to. With their hunting style there is no benefit to bite multiple times and ever consider letting go of the prey until it is fully dispatched.
 

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Our chow mix isn't good with little dogs, and she has gotten a hold of my stepmom's chihuahua's neck and shook him violently. She's perfectly fine with bigger dogs but there's just something about little dogs that bark in her face that she does not like. I have to be careful when I take her for walks at the park, because there have been times where owners of little dogs just come right up to us because she looks like a teddy bear, she is not. All other times, she is a mellow dog.

I've also seen huskies attack a cat and they did the same thing, grabbed it and shook it. I would imagine with a pitbull, there would just be the issue of not letting go...

I just have to add that both Petsmart and Petco grooming should be avoided. The two by us have both had issues like this. A yorkie was maimed at Petsmart, and a golden retriever pup got fried in a dryer at Petco because the girl on staff that put him in the dryer left to go to a party and didn't tell anyone. They were all over the news. Petco barely apologized to the owner and didn't fire the girl.
 
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