Puppy turning very aggressive - Page 2

Go Back   Dog Forum > Keeping and Caring for Dogs > Dog Training and Behavior > Puppy Help

Puppy turning very aggressive

This is a discussion on Puppy turning very aggressive within the Puppy Help forums, part of the Dog Training and Behavior category; well i guess we will have to give him away to someone who can give him what we cant. our biggest mistake was to listen ...

User Tag List

Like Tree112Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-28-2014, 10:53 AM
  #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
well i guess we will have to give him away to someone who can give him what we cant.

our biggest mistake was to listen to stories of relatives about their puppies being all calm and easy going from the start.
if we only lived in a separate house and his whining didnt wake up the neightbours it would be all fine.

and regarding alpha dog cesar's methods, i have tried both during this week and yes, positive reinforcement gave me much better results when it comes to what my puppy SHOULD be doing ,but didnt help with what my pup shouldnt. he makes no eye contact whatsoever when i say OFF, he backs away and continues
roflol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 11:10 AM
  #12
Senior Member
 
Bigargylesock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: midwest
Posts: 516
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
You really need to give the puppy some time to develop understanding. It takes a lot of repetitive training to get the things you want, including eye contact. You just have to keep using PR over and over and over again. If you have time to spend training with the puppy, it will be worth it.

The puppy is really a baby. Just like a human baby, he needs a lot of training and direction to learn. It takes them a while. Be patient with him, and with yourself. Start by giving him things that are a little easier to do. For example, say his name, and when he looks at you and makes eye contact, click/mark and give a treat. Reward him for little things that are easier for him to do now. My pup didn't learn "off!" until he was older. When he jumped on us, we just turned our backs to him, or side stepped so he would have to step down. If he jumped on us when we were sitting, we got up so he wouldn't have a person to jump on.

Again, if you feel there isn't time to train this way, but you want to use PR, then it might be better to find a home for him with someone who has more time to spend with the puppy, instead of making the puppy and yourselves frustrated. Or, just know that this is normal puppy behavior and it will pass, but it won't pass in a day, a week, or even a month.

Kikopup has very helpful YouTube training videos. I was new to puppy ownership, and her videos, along with this forum, helped immensely. Good luck to you, your fiance and your puppy!
Bigargylesock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 11:10 AM
  #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,418
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
You've gotten great advice and resource. What exactly can't you provide for him that would force you to return him to the breeder or rescue?

Your lack of sleep and frustration is obvious and probably coloring your view of the situation. Raising a puppy is very difficult work.

One aspect of positive reinforcement training that is often overlooked, is management. If there is something the puppy shouldn't be doing (e.g., chewing the furniture), prevent him from do it (e.g., block access to the furniture). As he grows and learns cues, you can use an incompatible behavior as a management tool. So, if he looks up at the kitchen counter, ask him to sit: he can't sit and counter surf at the same time. With a puppy, you will need to devote a great deal of time and effort to training, managing, and general care.

For the barking and whining in the crate, it's going to take time for him to get comfortable. SusanLynn posted a link to the crate training FAQ - that will help. You might try placing the crate next to the bed (that worked well with our pup). Or, you could just let him sleep on the bed. Some folks who are light enough sleepers are able to wake up when the puppy stirs and needs to go out. If you have neighbors who will be disturbed while you're working on crate training, offer an apology and gift. That often buys time and the neighbor's understanding to really work though an issue.

He's probably not going to offer eye contact unless you're specifically training for it. Here are several Kikopup videos for teaching attention and eye contact. Still, you don't need eye contact to manage his behavior.

You're not in this alone. There's an entire forum filled with helpful, knowledgeable, experienced folks here to help.
amaryllis, Rain, kelly528 and 2 others like this.
cookieface is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 10-28-2014, 11:11 AM
  #14
Senior Member
 
PoppyKenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,875
Mentioned: 715 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by roflol View Post
well i guess we will have to give him away to someone who can give him what we cant.

our biggest mistake was to listen to stories of relatives about their puppies being all calm and easy going from the start.
if we only lived in a separate house and his whining didnt wake up the neightbours it would be all fine.

and regarding alpha dog cesar's methods, i have tried both during this week and yes, positive reinforcement gave me much better results when it comes to what my puppy SHOULD be doing ,but didnt help with what my pup shouldnt. he makes no eye contact whatsoever when i say OFF, he backs away and continues
But have you tried teaching him what off means? You may have to physically get up yourself and make a move like you're leaving. Or get a treat and lure him down to the ground. Once he gets off, click/treat (no command yet). After awhile, he'll learn that you getting up or you moving your hand towards the floor (whatever you did) means he needs to get off the couch in order to get a reward. At that point, you can start to say the word "off" as he's getting down and then click/treat. Eventually he'll make the connection as to what "off" means - and that's a happy day!

Or, if you don't want him on the couch at all, teach him to lay down on the floor while you are watching TV. Maybe get him a bed and have him lay there. You may have to sit on the floor with him, continuously feeding him treats but eventually you'll be able to move back up to the couch and train him from there.

I guess my point is that he isn't a trained dog that slipped up and got on the couch - he's a puppy that doesn't know what you're asking of him. And at the end of the day, he's 8 weeks old. His attention span will be next to nothing and his knowledge will be very limited. The fact that you're able to teach him things is very impressive and is a good sign! Your thought process needs to do a complete 180 - for every behavior that you want him to be rid of, you need to teach him what to do instead. And it will take time.

It's a shame for you to have to give the puppy up, because frankly, this is typical puppy behavior. My Cocker mix is probably one of the hardest puppies I've had, he's just got some genetic temperament issues, but even he can learn (and in my eyes, that means any dog can learn!). But even my "easy" puppies were full of energy, didn't sleep through the night, chewed what they weren't supposed to, barked/whined/howled, and had to be taught how to behave. It was so, so worth it in the end but it can get very messy for awhile.
cookieface and amaryllis like this.
PoppyKenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 11:15 AM
  #15
Senior Member
 
ScaredyScarlett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Georgia
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I think it's unfortunate when people say things like "our puppy was a dream from the start." They're just looking back at that time with rose colored glasses IMO.

When I had my previous dog and was frustrated with lack of sleep and potty training, someone told me they housebroke their dog in 3 days. I felt so jealous and inadequate. But then I found out that it wasn't true because their dog continued to have accidents in their house. People like to exaggerate and not because they're deliberately doing so but because it's easier to remember the good times than the bad ones.

If you decide to keep your pup, try using redirection as a method to curb behaviors you don't want. So, for instance, when your pup is mouthing and biting your hands (or another object you don't want chewed up), take that away and give him what IS theirs to chew.

Or if he is jumping up on you, remove yourself. Only return attention when the puppy has stopped jumping (which may take several minutes). Your pup will learn that a certain behavior results in an undesirable consequence. This is positive punishment but done in a humane way - the presentation of a bad consequence to a behavior.)

Good Luck
cookieface and amaryllis like this.
ScaredyScarlett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 11:19 AM
  #16
Dog Forum ModeraTHOR
 
kmes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,909
Mentioned: 486 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
If I come across short, please forgive me. I am on my phone. Also this all moregeneral than what others have said, but still helpful if you can think about and apply the info.

For unwanted or "bad" behavior think of it as a 2 or 3 step plan.
Steps 1 and 2 are supervision and management. You want to supwrvise closely and come up with a management plan to prevent bad behavior from happening in the first place.
Then the next step is to actively train and reward what you would like the puppy to do instead.

Remember:
REWARD = REPEAT
Thats dog training in a nutshell and applies to both wanted and unwanted behavior. you need to reward good behavior. For bad behavior, manage so it doesn't happen repeatedly. When it does happen you can calmly interrupt and redirect to an appropriate activity (basically "not that, do this instead"). You can also remove the reward involved (ie. Ending play, turning away, etc. for jumping and mouthing) though you still need to reward the good for a puppy to really learn what you want instead.

Something to remember is that these issues take consistency andtime. Honestly at your pup's age and amount of time with you, your pup is just now beginning to learn and really doesnt understand you yet.
Posted via Mobile Device
cookieface and amaryllis like this.

Last edited by kmes; 10-28-2014 at 12:39 PM.
kmes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 11:20 AM
  #17
Senior Member
 
Rennajade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: California
Posts: 1,387
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Of course he doesn't know what you want -- you never taught him! He doesn't know what "off" means. You're going to have to teach it to him. A good idea is to teach him to lay on his own bed with positive reinforcement instead of trying to keep him from doing things. A good mantra to live by: teach him what to do, instead of what NOT to do. Teach a replacement behavior for things you don't want -- for example, if you don't want him jumping up on you, teach him to sit at your feet for attention. If you don't want him to bite your arms playfully, teach him to chew on his toy instead (by replacing your arms with his toy every single time, and never roughhousing with hands).

Alpha theory is totally debunked. There's no such thing as an alpha, even in wolves -- there's not some battle for power between dogs, let alone humans and dogs!

If you're willing to learn and adjust your methods, I promise you that it'll get better. It takes time and consistency. Definitely crate-train him -- sometimes puppies, like young kids, get so overstimulated that you have to actually make them slow down and take a nap. When you get the crate, teach him to like it. When he gets super bitey and hyper, put him in his crate with something yummy to chew on (stuffed Kong, bully stick, antler, etc) and leave him be. Don't ever use the crate as punishment; you want him to like it. Putting him in there with something to chew on doesn't count for punishment since you're just trying to calm him down and he has something to do until he crashes.

This is all totally normal behavior. He'll probably be a wonderful dog if you stick through it, but puppies are definitely challenging. It's worth it when you have a wonderful dog in the end!

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredyScarlett View Post
This is positive punishment but done in a humane way - the presentation of a bad consequence to a behavior.)
Gonna be nitpicky for just a sec -- this is actually negative punishment. Something rewarding being taken away to reduce a behavior is -P lol.

Last edited by Rennajade; 10-28-2014 at 11:22 AM.
Rennajade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 11:23 AM
  #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,418
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rose-colored glasses, indeed! It happens with everything. I often look back and think "grad school wasn't that bad, I should go back to get another degree."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredyScarlett View Post
Or if he is jumping up on you, remove yourself. Only return attention when the puppy has stopped jumping (which may take several minutes). Your pup will learn that a certain behavior results in an undesirable consequence. This is positive punishment but done in a humane way - the presentation of a bad consequence to a behavior.)

Good Luck
Not to be nit-picky, but that's an example of negative punishment - removal of an appetitive stimulus (in this case attention) to reduce a behavior. Positive punishment would be the introduction of an aversive stimulus (e.g., knee in the chest) to reduce a behavior.
Grabby likes this.
cookieface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 11:33 AM
  #19
Senior Member
 
Grabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 4,437
Mentioned: 250 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I understand that it's hard when you have neighbors to consider. Have you thought about talking to them and explaining that you're in the process of crate training and that soon you believe the puppy will learn to be quiet in his crate?

I am not going to try and talk you out of giving him up since you seem convinced that nothing we've suggested will help. I would like to encourage you to find the right home for this pup if you give up on him. He's got no say in the direction his life will take. You are the responsible adult, able to make choices that can mean a good life for this dog or a miserable existence and shades in between. Don't hand him off to the first person who expresses an interest unless you really don't care what happens to him.

This may sound less than kind but if you give this puppy away, don't get another one until you've spent the time to do some real research on what dog ownership entails.
cookieface and amaryllis like this.
Grabby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 12:27 PM
  #20
Senior Member
 
SusanLynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,400
Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Wow! I get to work and find a whole slew of posts. Obviously, ROFLOL, we all hope that you give your puppy and yourself more time. Please share this thread with your fiancee. The more that the two of you are on the same page with training, the easier it will go.
SusanLynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is this puppy aggressive? ChrisC Dog Training and Behavior 3 03-05-2014 10:57 AM
4 mo old Puppy's spay hernia is turning red crumbcake21 Dog Health 4 12-28-2013 11:13 PM
Puppy is turning bad LegendaryShips Puppy Help 18 09-03-2012 12:11 PM
Aggressive Puppy? DCurtis Dog Training and Behavior 23 08-07-2012 05:38 PM


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.