Pack of Two - Page 2

Go Back   Dog Forum > Keeping and Caring for Dogs > Dog Training and Behavior > Puppy Help

Pack of Two

This is a discussion on Pack of Two within the Puppy Help forums, part of the Dog Training and Behavior category; I'm not gonna start a long winded debate here, I agree it's a Puppy Mill, but take a look at the Sire and Dame, those ...

User Tag List

Like Tree16Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2012, 08:39 PM
  #11
Senior Member
 
Shawsea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,490
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I'm not gonna start a long winded debate here, I agree it's a Puppy Mill, but take a look at the Sire and Dame, those are not working line Sheps. Look at the slouch and the tucked tail. This is a young girl buying her first puppy, be a bit supportive.
Shawsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 09:37 PM
  #12
Senior Member
 
MissMetric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Despite how many times you said sure, yes, I am sure.

As for the millishness or not of the breeder, I don't suppose I know. There were mixed reviews on the internet about him, but he came to me with great recommendation from someone who's bought two of his dogs, and so I accepted the recommendation. I did as much research as I could on the kennel and his sire and dame.

I wasn't considering Schutzhund just to keep him from being bored, I was considering all sorts of show and training circuits. That's just the one his parents showed in. Also, I'd rather pay a ridiculous amount for a quality dog than I would pay a cheap amount to perpetuate the misbreeding of my favorite breed. Enough viewings of backyard breeders will do that.

My concern with my puppy is that we bond and he's healthy and happy. Even if I hadn't put a deposit on him, I wouldn't rethink a thing. All of the things you listed as pluses to me, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Shawsea likes this.
MissMetric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 09:38 PM
  #13
Senior Member
 
subado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawsea View Post
I'm not gonna start a long winded debate here, I agree it's a Puppy Mill, but take a look at the Sire and Dame, those are not working line Sheps. Look at the slouch and the tucked tail. This is a young girl buying her first puppy, be a bit supportive.
I cannot jump in and say yeah! go for it! Spend a ton more than necessary for a gamble! I cannot do it, in good conscience. I just cannot. Simply because you see a roached back means nothing.

If you agree that it is a puppy mill (which I am not actually calling this as such; I'm calling it a large commercial breeder) then how could you support this young person, first dog, paying a very high price? Not trying to pick on you at all, but this is the next 10+ years of this young person's life. How many people at a young age are truly equipped to take a GSD as their first dog? Not many and that is clearly evidenced by the GSD's in the shelters that are all too often around 1-2 years old.... that is where I am coming from. OP is already expressing ambivilence and doesn't even have the dog yet. What will the OP do when the GSD acts like... a GSD? The landsharking? Later, the territorial type behaviors? Call me jaded, but what I've seen and heard when many hit this period? They give them up. I don't want this person to take this on without fully knowing exactly what they're up against.

Call me Negative Nelly or whatever! but my primary concern and interest is the dog. If the OP is fully on board with what this will require, TERRIFIC -- I will completely give my full support and any help I can offer. My first red flag was SCH to prevent boredom... that just screamed at me that the OP just isn't quite aware of what this breed is.
subado is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 12-19-2012, 09:45 PM
  #14
Senior Member
 
subado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissMetric View Post
... Also, I'd rather pay a ridiculous amount for a quality dog than I would pay a cheap amount to perpetuate the misbreeding of my favorite breed. Enough viewings of backyard breeders will do that.

My concern with my puppy is that we bond and he's healthy and happy. Even if I hadn't put a deposit on him, I wouldn't rethink a thing. All of the things you listed as pluses to me, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Then why did you ask anyone? You've made up your mind apparently. I wish you luck.

You are overpaying, however. There are plenty of very high quality breeders (I can provide some names) out there who will want far less for as good, or better, of a pedigree. With a good breeder, and not a large commercial operation, you also get the personal advice and communication with the breeder throughout the dog's life. Help with health and training issues. A person you can call and wants to hear from you and gives you personal attention. You won't get that with a big commercial breeder; they can't provide it -- they don't know their dogs well enough, despite what they may claim.

Again, good luck. I have a feeling we will be hearing from you again in a couple of months.
subado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 09:49 PM
  #15
Senior Member
 
Shawsea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,490
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
And after I found out I had been scammed and bought a Wolf Hybrid instead of the Purebred Shepherd it was sold to me as, at 16, everyone including my Vet told me to destroy her because I was not capable of being responsible enough to train and handle her, and to date she is still the best dog I have ever owned. So instead of an exercise in futility trying to change her mind, I instead offer to help as much as I can. If she lived anywhere near me, I would offer to help her train the dog in person. We all need to start somewhere, and if her passion is GSD's as mine is, better her make a few mistakes along the way trying to be the best she can, then someone who just thinks they look cool and heard they were good at protecting.
efinley likes this.
Shawsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 09:57 PM
  #16
Senior Member
 
MissMetric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I never said that I wanted Schutz so he wouldn't be bored, I don't think you've looked at my second post at all. Schutz is a lot of work and it's difficult, and that's why I considered it, to challenge him and myself so that he's not a bored, destructive puppy that goes back to his breeder. Never a shelter.

Unfortunately, when I was asking for German Shepherd breeders of repute, that's the name I got and I couldn't find anything definitive online. I forgive myself for that mistake, if it is one, and if you have fabulous breeders, please, PM me the names and I will consider them for my next German Shepherd.

Ambivalence? Hardly. I'm concerned that my dog will not get all of his social needs fulfilled with just myself alone. My primary concern before I get the dog is not how much sleep I'll get, or if my puppy will bother me all day, it's if I will be enough as a person to make him happy. Far cry from what you are suggesting of me. I didn't ask if I should get a German Shepherd, I asked if from experience as single dog owners, your dog needed more.

Despite being 21, I know exactly what I've chosen to do. I didn't randomly select German Shepherds because lol pretty, lol protection.

So before you decide to give unhelpful and negative comments on my thread, try to get a better feel of who I am and what I'm about.

You will absolutely be hearing from me in a couple of months. Telling you how wonderful my dog and I are doing.
Tess, Shawsea and HouseIsaZoo like this.
MissMetric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 10:41 PM
  #17
Senior Member
 
subado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissMetric View Post
I never said that I wanted Schutz so he wouldn't be bored, I don't think you've looked at my second post at all. Schutz is a lot of work and it's difficult, and that's why I considered it, to challenge him and myself so that he's not a bored, destructive puppy that goes back to his breeder. Never a shelter.

Unfortunately, when I was asking for German Shepherd breeders of repute, that's the name I got and I couldn't find anything definitive online. I forgive myself for that mistake, if it is one, and if you have fabulous breeders, please, PM me the names and I will consider them for my next German Shepherd.

Ambivalence? Hardly. I'm concerned that my dog will not get all of his social needs fulfilled with just myself alone. My primary concern before I get the dog is not how much sleep I'll get, or if my puppy will bother me all day, it's if I will be enough as a person to make him happy. Far cry from what you are suggesting of me. I didn't ask if I should get a German Shepherd, I asked if from experience as single dog owners, your dog needed more.

Despite being 21, I know exactly what I've chosen to do. I didn't randomly select German Shepherds because lol pretty, lol protection.

So before you decide to give unhelpful and negative comments on my thread, try to get a better feel of who I am and what I'm about.

You will absolutely be hearing from me in a couple of months. Telling you how wonderful my dog and I are doing.
You have completely misunderstood me or I have phrased my words wrong or a combination thereof.

You are missing the forest for the trees. No, a GSD does not "need" other dogs, but will definitely require human and canine socialization. Just you asking the question about the "social" needs of a GSD shows your lack of understanding of the breed. That is my concern for you.

I could give you the names of some absolutely superb breeders, but that is pointless now.

There is truly no need to be so angry and defensive. As said before, I am a GSD afficiando. I've seen/heard of countless GSD/GSD mixes going to shelters when this breed confuses, frustrates and in many ways, becomes hard to control. This breed requires a certain mindset of the owner. This breed will challenge you. You likely won't know what to do when it bites you non-stop as a pup.. or ignores you.. or becomes territorial to everyone who visits your home. I cannot possibly relate to you how many GSD's are given up. I know you are full bore right now, but when the problems come, when the dog is biting, the dog is attacking, behaving aggressively towards your visitors, etc, and so on... -- it is not easy to deal with. People older than you, people who have had dogs before -- too many of even them give up on this breed. It is very disheartening. That is the place I am coming from, so you can take that for what it is worth, or you can insist on being defensive and thinking it is personal. It isn't.

I've had quite a few Shepherds come thru my home in the past years. I'm not talking out of my backside here. (See my avatar?)

Can you do it? Sure you can. Just understand you're jumping the gun by taking on a stronger breed as your first dog. You'll need advice. You'll be well served by finding a good mentor as well. This dog is gonna take you for a loop, lol. I say that in humor, but it is true. I hope you're prepared for the stupid amounts of offleash exercise this dog *requires*. Daily walks won't begin to cut it. This breed requires strenuous activity often and lots of mental work as well.

I won't respond again if you are angry or combative to what I've said. It just is what it is and I wish you the best.
subado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 11:15 PM
  #18
Senior Member
 
MissMetric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I'm not angry. If you think I need a mentor, then as a German Shepherd afficiando you should offer me helpful advice or at least one something positive. That would have earned a completely different response from me! ^.^ Instead of warning me about the problems, perhaps you should offer advice in the event that encounter them. I agree with you, I definitely need a mentor and I will need help. I'm not against any of that, but from my reading of what you said, you didn't offer me that. You offered me negativity with nothing else, and so I apologize if my response sounded defensive, it wasn't my intention.

I still feel as though you think I randomly selected the breed and haven't been in love with them since I was a young girl. I've done extensive research on the breed, handled the breed, and he's not my first dog, he's just the first dog who I will be raising by myself with him and myself not having the support of my family. And yes, he's my first GSD. If I come off as antsy, ambivalent, or unsure, I assure you I am just concerned with doing right by him. I honestly don't think that suggests ignorance. ^.^

I know the GSD does not need other dogs, and like I said in my original post, that isn't my concern. I've researched my heart out, bought and read countless books, prepared my home, and myself, but there are some questions that you can't find prewritten. You just have to ask other people about their experiences. I know that he'll require insane amount of exercise, and that he'll shed a lot, and that he might become overly protective of me, and that he'll probably be territorial. I know all of that, and I'm preparing for it now and asking people what their experiences are now so that I when I do have him, I'm not feeling frantic and stressed. That's all.

Your passion for the breed that is heartening. If you offer me advice or suggestions, I'd be happy to read listen. If I came off as sharp, it's only because I think you are underestimating me, and I pride myself on being an over achiever. :P
MissMetric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 11:33 PM
  #19
Dog Forum ModeraTHOR
 
ZoesMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 4,351
Mentioned: 158 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
OP, check out Tab289 on youtube. Dog training explained - YouTube
http://trainingpositive.com/
ZoesMom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:21 AM
  #20
Senior Member
 
subado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissMetric View Post
I'm not angry. If you think I need a mentor, then as a German Shepherd afficiando you should offer me helpful advice or at least one something positive. That would have earned a completely different response from me! ^.^ Instead of warning me about the problems, perhaps you should offer advice in the event that encounter them. I agree with you, I definitely need a mentor and I will need help. I'm not against any of that, but from my reading of what you said, you didn't offer me that. You offered me negativity with nothing else, and so I apologize if my response sounded defensive, it wasn't my intention.

I still feel as though you think I randomly selected the breed and haven't been in love with them since I was a young girl. I've done extensive research on the breed, handled the breed, and he's not my first dog, he's just the first dog who I will be raising by myself with him and myself not having the support of my family. And yes, he's my first GSD. If I come off as antsy, ambivalent, or unsure, I assure you I am just concerned with doing right by him. I honestly don't think that suggests ignorance. ^.^

I know the GSD does not need other dogs, and like I said in my original post, that isn't my concern. I've researched my heart out, bought and read countless books, prepared my home, and myself, but there are some questions that you can't find prewritten. You just have to ask other people about their experiences. I know that he'll require insane amount of exercise, and that he'll shed a lot, and that he might become overly protective of me, and that he'll probably be territorial. I know all of that, and I'm preparing for it now and asking people what their experiences are now so that I when I do have him, I'm not feeling frantic and stressed. That's all.

Your passion for the breed that is heartening. If you offer me advice or suggestions, I'd be happy to read listen. If I came off as sharp, it's only because I think you are underestimating me, and I pride myself on being an over achiever. :P
Ok, cool, we're getting to the nuts and bolts here. Perhaps I came off negative, but you have to also admit, you didn't give all this history before! I was just going off of what I was "given" in a simple Internet post!

So let's blame the Internet and call it good?

My love of the breed trumps all. I have to put that right out there.

As far as underestimating you, please do not take that personally as again, this is a forum on the Internet and I don't know you. I know I care about these dogs and you didn't give me all that info before, so I became... let's say, protective... In all truth, I was also thinking back to when I was your age with my first dog and envisioning that that first dog was a GSD and thinking, holy crap, how hard would that have been. So over-personalizing on my part perhaps.

So, if I were you, here's my best advice:

I would start thinking about places you can be offleash safely with the dog. Start looking at baseball diamonds, soccer parks, walking trails, etc that you can safely take your puppy. This offleah work EARLY is paramount to later work with recall. I cannot stress this enough, this is very important foundation work.

I would definitely find out what the breeder is feeding the dog and decide if you wish to also feed that food, where you can get it, etc. GSD's are notorious for fussy-gut issues. Read all about bloat as well, as they are more prone to it than others. Should you not want to feed the same food, please do take your sweet time in a changeover, as again, this breed is often very gut sensitive. EPI and SIBO are more common in GSD's. Many vets cannot even figure this out; my WGSD x male is living proof of that.

Expect your pup to bite you. It is called "landsharking" and it can go on for a long, long time. There are many methods to deal with this, but I'd suggest you go to a GSD specific forum to get advice.

Territorialsm comes later. It is natural to the breed. I'd read up on it long before it occurs... I think my male started with it around... geesh I don't remember exactly, but something like eight months. The dog must be worked with to allow strangers or you will end up with a dog that must be secluded or crated when anyone comes onto the property.

That's all I can type just now. I'm tired.
millitantanimist and ZoesMom like this.
subado is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Greetings, this is my pack vertigo210 Dog Pictures and Videos 7 07-24-2012 05:59 PM
My Pack and I! PawsofLoveTX Introductions 8 05-17-2012 09:23 PM
My Pack Newt Dog Pictures and Videos 12 01-15-2012 07:58 PM
My pack Packmom Dog Pictures and Videos 16 04-07-2011 08:31 AM
My Pack Casiano Dog Pictures and Videos 5 02-01-2011 10:03 PM


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.