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Help finding a Miniature Schnauzer puppy

This is a discussion on Help finding a Miniature Schnauzer puppy within the Puppy Help forums, part of the Dog Training and Behavior category; I do like that she does limited registration, but if she isn't showing or competing in anything, then she's not breeding for any responsible purpose. ...

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Old 03-13-2013, 05:39 PM
  #11
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I do like that she does limited registration, but if she isn't showing or competing in anything, then she's not breeding for any responsible purpose. ie how does she know her dogs meet the confo standards? How have they proven themselves worth breeding in any other venue? There are plenty of "pets with good temperaments" on the market and in shelters already, so if she isn't breeding to improve the breed, she shouldn't be doing it (and you shouldn't be supporting her).

You also didn't mention any health testing/screening of the parents. These are the minimums that she should be doing for all of her breeding dogs: Canine Health Information Center: CHIC Information

What age does she send the pups home, btw?

I just posted the following links on another thread but think you might find them useful as well. Make sure your breeder stacks up to these standards. http://www.gglrc.org/breeders.html
http://www.lrcsocal.org/Puppy%20Checklist.htm (both re: labs but applicable to all breeds)
http://www.akc.org/press_center/facts_stats.cfm?page=responsible_breeder
http://www.dogfriendly.com/server/general/portal/general/dogpurchase.shtml
http://www.vetinfo.com/how-to-find-an-ethical-dog-breeder.html
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/findingbreeder.htm
http://www.5stardog.com/dog-breeders.asp
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:14 PM
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Well here's the link to the breeders site so you can decide for yourself what you think of the breeder:
AKC Miniature Schnauzers

The breeder sends the puppies home at 2 months (8 weeks) of age.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:05 PM
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I take a LOT of issue with that "breeder".

Most glaring though is that the buyer is only guaranteed against genetic health defects for 7 days after purchase. 7 DAYS?!?! Are you kidding me? That should be 2 years at least. Most hereditary conditions won't show up until the dog has matured. 7 days is nothing. That's not a health guarantee, it's a scam. This is not a responsible breeder.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by beretw View Post
I take a LOT of issue with that "breeder".

Most glaring though is that the buyer is only guaranteed against genetic health defects for 7 days after purchase. 7 DAYS?!?! Are you kidding me? That should be 2 years at least. Most hereditary conditions won't show up until the dog has matured. 7 days is nothing. That's not a health guarantee, it's a scam. This is not a responsible breeder.

Ditto!!! A responsible breeder will take the puppy back at any time during it's life. ANY TIME!
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:54 PM
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Ditto on the health guarantee. 7 days is enough to catch congenital but not all genetic/hereditary conditions. And the only hereditary thing she checks are eyes, so it's kind of like "good luck with the rest of your dog...."

It's not the worst breeder's site I've seen by far, but there is room for improvement.

For instance, she lists the standard, but she doesn't show to test her dogs' conformation, nor are her bloodlines from successful show lines (out of all the dogs, I only saw a few CH in the past 4 gens). So the fact that the standard is listed doesn't mean much, nor does the fact that they are AKC (anyone that can pay the registration fee can be AKC...). Again, no other competition or certifications for her dogs, which would lend purpose/function and temperament/trainability credence. She's essentially breeding pets, and as mentioned, this country has enough pets being put to sleep every day.

She also doesn't do the minimum health tests on her breeding dogs that the breed club has determined appropriate. (I do appreciate that she has removed certain dogs from her program* for health reasons and that she does CERF.)

8 wks is the bare minimum for keeping puppies--if I were to nit-pick (and I am), I'd prefer seeing at least 9 wks, even up to 12 wks with the litter and dam.

Please give those pages on responsible breeders I linked a look and also read more of the national breed club site that I listed in one of my first posts here.

*Although she doesn't actually keep them herself... I'd rather see her commit to her dogs if she expects her puppy owners to commit as well....
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:32 AM
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I actually do not have a problem with the breeder not doing shows themselves. I'd rather have a healthy dog with a good temperament and dog shows are not known for putting those as a priority. There can be terrible health problems in a show dog who looks the part. I'd rather have a dog with a stable mind than...say...the perfect tail length.

Any good breeder will make you sign a contract that you are legally obligated to return the dog to them if you don't want them vs. shelter/rescue. They choose to rehome themselves vs. clog up shelters with their dogs.

Mini Schnauzers can have a lot of health issues. My sister has her 2nd one now and she is showing the signs of diabetes or cushing's at 7 (I think she's 7). She knows this dog was poorly bred and now she's sworn off schnauzers even though her first she really really enjoyed.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:08 PM
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I actually do not have a problem with the breeder not doing shows themselves. I'd rather have a healthy dog with a good temperament and dog shows are not known for putting those as a priority. There can be terrible health problems in a show dog who looks the part. I'd rather have a dog with a stable mind than...say...the perfect tail length.
I agree, but this breeder is not "proving," competing/testing, or working with her dogs in any other venue/manner either. The very least she could do would be CGC.... To me, these are just pet dogs producing more pets--in a country overloaded with pets.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marbear
I actually do not have a problem with the breeder not doing shows themselves. I'd rather have a healthy dog with a good temperament and dog shows are not known for putting those as a priority. There can be terrible health problems in a show dog who looks the part. I'd rather have a dog with a stable mind than...say...the perfect tail length.
I certainly agree that there are issues within the conformation world and that not all show breeders are good.

However a reputable breeder breeds for the complete package. For temperament (which is part of breed standard), health, and to standard (or in the case or working lines, for working ability).

Really to do this a breeder needs to show their dogs in some venue (be it conformation, agility, field events, obedience/rally, etc.) and do all the neccessary genetic and health testing. Some even do official temperament testing.

Even if a breeder decided not to go the conformation route, they could still be showing their dogs (and should be IMO) in other venues. Perhaps if their focus was on producing an excellent pet/companion dog they could earn obedience and rally titles, earn their CGC, and even actively do therapy dog work inorder to help to prove their dogs' ability to serve as companions.
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Last edited by kmes; 03-14-2013 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:40 PM
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Origin Saint, I do wish you the best of luck in finding the perfect dog!

Look through all of the links provided so that you can make an informed decision regarding this and any other breeder. I do also want to just encourage you to reconsider adopting. There are pups available in rescue with adoption fees in your original price range. I really doubt that you'll be able to find a pup from a repuatable breeder for that same price...

The added benefit to adopting is that the the pup should already be UTD of vaccinations, microchipped, and spayed/neutered. I do realize that the breeder you are considering is going to vaccinate and chip the pups, but you'll still need to alter your pup. So not only are you likely going to be paying a purchase price higer than an adoption fee, but you'll also need to pay for altering the pup later on. Unless you have a low cost clinic in your area, it could easily cost an additional $200+ dollars, which might be a consideration on a tight budget.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:29 PM
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Well i read her website and she does say to bring the dog back to her if at any time the pup cannot be kept. Overall she seems like a decent person trying to make a few dollars breeding pet quality dogs. Her offer of a year of free grooming seems like a sincere way to stay in touch. Sure, not the best breeder out there but not terrible either.

Miles and miles better than a puppy mill or internet shipping sell to anyone breeder.
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