Our doodle dogs

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Our doodle dogs

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Old 11-06-2015, 08:25 PM
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Our doodle dogs

I just thought I would bring up something that has been bothering me lately. It is in no way meant to offend anyone's opinions, but I don't think everyone has been completely informed about the truth of poodle mixes.

I read an article that stated buying poodle mixes was unethical because so many were bred by irresponsible breeders and then ended up in shelters. However, it failed to mention that the same thing happens to all other breeds of dogs as well.
We have six poodle mixes and one pure poodle, because of allergies in the family. While I know poodle mixes don't always work against allergies, it helps with my families allergies and so we are very thankful for that. The article said this was not true and they didn't help with allergies, however.

The article also claimed they did not always behave properly, but all dogs are individuals no matter what. All our dogs are unique, but all of them are wonderful. Cinnamon, my miniature goldendoodle, is the most loyal, sweetest, most intelligent doggy ever and is always there when I need him.

It is certainly true that you can't predict their size completely, Cinnamon is 50 lbs and was suppose to be 30 lbs, but our family doesn't mind, because all our doodles are so gentle, from our 15 lb maltese mix to our 90 lb golden retriever mix. They are highly intelligent, gentle with most other pets, love to learn tricks, and another great thing is that during the winter they can grow thick coats to keep warm and they can then be shaved short in the summer and still look so handsome and cute!

I guess I wrote all this just because I felt a little hurt when someone told me that doodle dogs weren't friendly, healthy or useful, when that is so not true about our dogs. There are so many ethical, wonderful doodle dog breeders out there, and mix-breed dogs are often healthier then pure dogs because of hybrid vigor (heterosis). All dogs have faults, but I can't imagine life without our pack.

Sorry if I ranted, thanks so much for understanding.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:50 PM
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I think the problem people have with Doodles is that people price them extremely high, and market them as "Designer Dogs". Most of the Golden Retriever x Poodle mixes/Lab x Poodle mixes sell for around $2,000 or more. Most I see for sale at 3,000 dollars. For a mixed breed dog, which is double the cost of my Aussie, and almost 4 times the cost of my Border Collie.

They also prey on people who believe they are getting a "hypoallergenic" dog, when we know that such a dog does not exist.

I'm glad that the size didn't bother you too much, but imagine some poor soul who can't have a dog over 30 or 40 pounds due to their lease, and ends up with a dog that is 50-60 pounds. Then they are in an unfortunate situation.

I believe hybrid vigor does occur, but it isn't this wonderful thing that eliminates all health problems in mixed breeds, and I do believe unscrupulous breeders use the term to believe that buying cross-breeds for hefty prices is worth it. If the parents have any sort of health issues, your puppies could very well have health issues. Which (hopefully isn't the case for you) occurs often in "designer dogs" because more often than not, it's all about turning a big profit.

My number one biggest problem with all of the Poodle mixes is simply that all of the desired traits can be found in the Poodle.

I'm very happy all your poodle mixes are healthy and happy, but I think it is naive to think all Poodle-mixes are the same. Just as it would be naive for me to assume that all Aussie breeders aren't breeding double merles, or lethal whites.
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GitaBooks View Post
I just thought I would bring up something that has been bothering me lately. It is in no way meant to offend anyone's opinions, but I don't think everyone has been completely informed about the truth of poodle mixes.

I read an article that stated buying poodle mixes was unethical because so many were bred by irresponsible breeders and then ended up in shelters. However, it failed to mention that the same thing happens to all other breeds of dogs as well.
We have six poodle mixes and one pure poodle, because of allergies in the family. While I know poodle mixes don't always work against allergies, it helps with my families allergies and so we are very thankful for that. The article said this was not true and they didn't help with allergies, however.

The article also claimed they did not always behave properly, but all dogs are individuals no matter what. All our dogs are unique, but all of them are wonderful. Cinnamon, my miniature goldendoodle, is the most loyal, sweetest, most intelligent doggy ever and is always there when I need him.

It is certainly true that you can't predict their size completely, Cinnamon is 50 lbs and was suppose to be 30 lbs, but our family doesn't mind, because all our doodles are so gentle, from our 15 lb maltese mix to our 90 lb golden retriever mix. They are highly intelligent, gentle with most other pets, love to learn tricks, and another great thing is that during the winter they can grow thick coats to keep warm and they can then be shaved short in the summer and still look so handsome and cute!

I guess I wrote all this just because I felt a little hurt when someone told me that doodle dogs weren't friendly, healthy or useful, when that is so not true about our dogs. There are so many ethical, wonderful doodle dog breeders out there, and mix-breed dogs are often healthier then pure dogs because of hybrid vigor (heterosis). All dogs have faults, but I can't imagine life without our pack.

Sorry if I ranted, thanks so much for understanding.
I'm sorry to hear if you're feelings were hurt by others. We all love our dogs so I understand where you are coming from.

From what I've seen there are not "so many ethical, wonderful doodle dog breeders" most are for profit and at best clueless pet owners. There are some ethical ones out there that health test, care about temperament and screen homes. If you've found one like that I think that's great.

Heterosis will only rectify the negative impact of inbreeding depression. Living slightly longer or having higher fertility rate is better fitness but it doesn't remove the possibility of disease therefore I wouldn't say they are "healthier". They will have some homozygous genes too. Labradoodles are ranked 74 for hip stats better than a lot of pure breds (than 73 breeds) and worse than 100 other breeds. Lots of mixed breed dogs suffer from this condition. The random designer doo I met at the park has both luxating patella and hypothyroidism.

Breeding dogs together of different breeds that carry the same disease carries the same 25% risk of affected pups and 50% carriers as breeding pure. It doesn't matter if the number of other homozygous genes have decreased.

Purebred dogs not always at higher risk for genetic disorders, study finds :: UC Davis News & Information

This study of over 90,000 dogs (pure and mix) put forth what dog breeders already figured out. That mixes are not healthier by default.

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Old 11-07-2015, 10:19 AM
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While I do believe any can have problems, and any can be healthy... It comes right down to how healthy are the parents? Every breed has something notorious.. And it's true when mixing, you can cancel things out through genetics. Please note, I said CAN.. That's because a lot of breed issues need to be matched by both parents to have that come again in a pup. BUT not all aliments need to be double matched.. Those that don't need a double dose (same bad gene from each parent to match up) are able to continue to be an issue, even in mixed breeds. As a matter of a fact, new issues can be made if mixed breeds are being bred as though they are full bred, an issue that I delt with.
My Amal pup was half Bishon and half Maltese. She developed a disorder that is only seen between this mix. I got her when she was 3yrs. It was about 2 years later she started to have issues. She was on a very expensive med that was ultimately going to kill her, but she would die even sooner without it. We were one of the very few lucky ones... She lived to be 13 years old on this leathal medication. I have often wonderd just how old she would have gotten if she didn't get sick, and didnt need the meds. But I know how lucky I was to have her so long on it. She was the most expensive dog I have ever had, this mix... but free to get as she was a gift to me, And yet my Ocean and Feora, both mixes have always been in good health. A cocker spaniel I once rescued (was elderly when I got him) was fairly healthy.

The problem with breed bashing, or mix breed bashing, is that in most cases, people pick on things that are NOT specific to that breed. Things like being misbehaved? That's a training issue, I have seen dogs of all breeds misbehaved. I have seen all breeds have health issues, and their mixes.. I have seen all back yard breeders of both full and mixes be sold as something they are not, because it can be hidden in a puppy face or body, you don't find out till they start growing that the mini ausie isn't so mini, the full poodle wasn't quite Tcup, the shorter pit isn't so short, that mini husky is getting quite tall in an apartment where only little dogs are allowed, that this GSD isn't quite full bred looking as he gets older, and the chi is looking a bit tall to be full bred and so on... Back yard breeders will tell you anything to get you to hand over the money.. Here's one of my favorites.. "If you can't afford my prices, you can't afford these dogs anyway" I always laugh at that one. It's meant to make you feel like your not good enough unless you spend a lot getting a dog. Mix breeders are really good at throwing that out. Personally, in no way can I spend much money getting a dog, but have more then proved I can afford to care for them!! All my dogs I currently have were free.

So in the end, its really about the parents. What you like, and where you get. Getting from reputable breeders, you will pay a lot for that piece of mind for tested parents, pups with shots and anything else already spent on them. That doesn't mean things can't happen, but the percentage rate of getting a healthy dog is much higher because of the care and money put into them. These people rarely make money off their sells because it goes back to the dogs plus some. The back yard breeders price match the good ones and sometimes are even more, and they do and make a lot of money because its rare much of that goes back to the dogs. Your, in most cases, going to run a 50% chance either way, sometimes less with them. A lot of them, I have met some that don't care if their parents have health issues.. They want the money from the pups. --- And then theirs the oops dogs. They aren't bred, it was an accident. Again, as long as parents were healthy, you should get healthy pups. But you don't really know as the parents are not yours. You don't even know if they have had their shots. But if you adopt, again, taking all the chances, because you don't know where they came from at all...
Good people, bad people everywhere. Good breeding, bad breeding everywhere. It's in all breeds on both ends of the spectrum. To try and pick on one breed or mix and bash that one as if they are all the problem, is actually quite ridiculous, and is how things like breed bans get started.
Mixes have been around since forever. Even poodle mixes. I get irritated that they went from *free to good home* to *$2000.* (lets not argue on how free is bad. I'm just saying that's what it used to be, and pointing out the huge jump) for anyone to think it's only poodle mixes that did this, they are kidding themselves. (Only saying as an example) Because I am seeing it across the board. Go to Craigslist alone. There are so many made up names for all the different mixes that my head spins sometimes trying to figure out what the heck they actually have. $400 and up..

The dog world is crazy these days. Gotta always figure out what people are trying to pull on both the buyers AND sellers side of things. To have breed bashers, well that doesn't help and is a disservice to dogs in need of that breed.

This isn't to offend anyone, isn't to offend any place of where people get their dogs.. As far as im concerned, they all need good homes. It's only a long winded feeling of my own that I hate it when issues of all breeds get blamed on one breed. It seems to me, that the article that the original post is based from, who ever wrote about poodle mixes are so bad... That person feels that if poodle mixes were bannished, then all problems would be gone with what those byb's do. Sounds like a banning to me. But I assure you, it would solve nothing, just as pit banning has solved nothing.

And that's just one persons opinion
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:57 AM
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While I do believe any can have problems, and any can be healthy... It comes right down to how healthy are the parents? Every breed has something notorious.. And it's true when mixing, you can cancel things out through genetics. Please note, I said CAN.. That's because a lot of breed issues need to be matched by both parents to have that come again in a pup. BUT not all aliments need to be double matched.. Those that don't need a double dose (same bad gene from each parent to match up) are able to continue to be an issue, even in mixed breeds. As a matter of a fact, new issues can be made if mixed breeds are being bred as though they are full bred, an issue that I delt with.
You made an excellent post. I only wanted to point out that even recessive ailments can be produced in a mix. Many diseases are widespread across breeds. This is why polygenic and simple recessive diseases are seen in these mixed dogs who's owner bought into "mixes are healthier". Which I think is something most people tale issue with. The dishonest of some of these breeders that haven't any idea what they are doing.
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Old 11-07-2015, 03:12 PM
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They also prey on people who believe they are getting a "hypoallergenic" dog, when we know that such a dog does not exist.
That's not true, "hypo" means "less," not "non." A lot of dogs are in fact hypoallergenic.

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My number one biggest problem with all of the Poodle mixes is simply that all of the desired traits can be found in the Poodle.
I disagree, all of the doodles I've met in my area have a different temperament from the poodles in my area. I think the poodles around here must be poorly bred because they're all neurotic, anxious animals. Maybe they're fine in a home environment, but in daycares at least they don't seem to do as well as other breeds/mixes including doodles. The crossing seems to help with this issue. I'm sure a well bred poodle would be different, but they seem pretty sensitive in general, and some of the breeds they're crossed with seem to balance that out. Nothing wrong with a sensitive dog, but it's not for everyone.
Plus, some people just have different preferences. If someone wanted a poodle, they would have gotten a poodle. I don't really see what's it to you whether or not someone wants a particular type of dog.


@GitaBooks I'd get used to that attitude around here. Every so often a crossbred bashing thread will pop up and you just can't let it bother you because nothing you say will change anyone's opinion. They get so hung up about purebreds, and believe crosses are so inferior they should only be adopted as unwanted dogs from shelters/rescues. It has alienated a number of members with crossbred dogs.

I will agree with them to some extent though. It is difficult to find a reputable breeder of crossbred dogs. I tried finding a cockapoo breeder a couple years ago and I found one that looked okay but didn't answer any questions I had regarding the health and temperament of her dogs. I don't agree with those who say that any breeder that breeds crosses is automatically a bad breeder. I also think that there are plenty of terrible purebred breeders out there as well and the issue isn't with what people are breeding but rather how they go about doing it. This designer dog debate detracts from the real problem of irresponsible breeding in general.
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Old 11-07-2015, 05:18 PM
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That's not true, "hypo" means "less," not "non." A lot of dogs are in fact hypoallergenic.
True, but based on the majority of breeders I've looked at, they really play up the idea that a Hypoallergenic dog causes no allergies. I can only give my opinion based on breeders I've spoken to/people who have bought from particular breeders.


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I disagree, all of the doodles I've met in my area have a different temperament from the poodles in my area. I think the poodles around here must be poorly bred because they're all neurotic, anxious animals. Maybe they're fine in a home environment, but in daycares at least they don't seem to do as well as other breeds/mixes including doodles. The crossing seems to help with this issue. I'm sure a well bred poodle would be different, but they seem pretty sensitive in general, and some of the breeds they're crossed with seem to balance that out. Nothing wrong with a sensitive dog, but it's not for everyone.
Plus, some people just have different preferences. If someone wanted a poodle, they would have gotten a poodle. I don't really see what's it to you whether or not someone wants a particular type of dog.
It must vary greatly from region to region, as I've met nothing but wonderful Poodles, and over the top "goldendoodles". I'm not against people buying the dog they want at all, I just haven't met an ethical Goldendoodle breeder. That also is not to say that there aren't unethical "purebred" dog breeders either (See "Miniature or Toy Aussies").


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@GitaBooks I'd get used to that attitude around here. Every so often a crossbred bashing thread will pop up and you just can't let it bother you because nothing you say will change anyone's opinion. They get so hung up about purebreds, and believe crosses are so inferior they should only be adopted as unwanted dogs from shelters/rescues. It has alienated a number of members with crossbred dogs.
I certainly have not seen that attitude around here, especially since I would say the majority of people on here have mixed breed dogs. I never owned a purebred dog until I got Levi, and I loved all my mixed breed dogs growing up.
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Old 11-08-2015, 06:38 AM
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Our doodle dogs

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True, but based on the majority of breeders I've looked at, they really play up the idea that a Hypoallergenic dog causes no allergies. I can only give my opinion based on breeders I've spoken to/people who have bought from particular breeders.









It must vary greatly from region to region, as I've met nothing but wonderful Poodles, and over the top "goldendoodles". I'm not against people buying the dog they want at all, I just haven't met an ethical Goldendoodle breeder. That also is not to say that there aren't unethical "purebred" dog breeders either (See "Miniature or Toy Aussies").









I certainly have not seen that attitude around here, especially since I would say the majority of people on here have mixed breed dogs. I never owned a purebred dog until I got Levi, and I loved all my mixed breed dogs growing up.

Well of course you haven't noticed. But you would notice something if every time someone made a thread about your dog's breed/mix/type it was nothing but negative. A bunch of people ganging up and talking about how horrible it is that people breed your dog's type and how everything that people say about them is a lie when those people have limited experience with these dogs and certainly haven't owned one, and still try to argue with the people that do! It doesn't happen every week, maybe every few weeks, every few months. I've been here a few years and I've seen my fair share of them. The OP's a newer member and already she's noticed the negative attitude. So I think if you had a dog and people have literally told you here that you were an idiot for buying it, then you would notice too. I mean, come on, we even have a sticky in the breed section (which has some misinformation in it btw) about how awful it is to buy a mixed breed when there ARE good breeders out there- they are harder to find though, I'll give you that.

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Old 11-08-2015, 07:59 AM
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The main culprits are the lab x poodle mixes and the golden x poodle mixes. These designer dogs are very often falsely marketed and their breeders rely on ignorance. I'll come back and post the website later but I have seen "English teddy bear golden doodles" being sold for 8,000 dollars. It's absolutely a scam.

Most people are buying these dogs because they want a dog that doesn't shed. When you mix a high shedding dog with a low shedding dog you don't automatically produce a dog that doesn't shed.

People are buying these dogs because they don't like the poodle look. When I let my poodle's hair grow out...everyone thinks she's a doodle.

People are buying these dogs because they are supposed to be healthier. They are not.

People are buying these dogs because they want a "lab personality" with "poodle hair". I don't think many have met well bred standard poodles. My girl has a perfect temperament, which isn't hard to find in standard poodles.

I think the most non-sensical thing of all is that the the most expensive, most desired and "most guaranteed" doodles are the multi generational ones bred back to poodles again. So people are walking around with dogs that are 75% or 87.5% poodle, that they paid more for, and would refuse to get a poodle. Makes no sense.

The Aussie labby goldy bordie doodle marketing relies on ignorance of the standard poodle breed. The dog they are creating already exists.
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Old 11-08-2015, 08:14 AM
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Minis and toys do not represent standard poodles IMO. They are massed produced from poor lines and most I see are extremely neurotic.

All poodles are supposed to have the same temperament but bad breeding and over popularity of the smaller poodles have resulted in shaky temperaments.
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