Is this even possible?

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Is this even possible?

This is a discussion on Is this even possible? within the General Dog Discussion forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; My female had puppies May 6th, a little over a month ago. The last three days, the male has been acting like she's going into ...

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Old 06-11-2019, 02:05 AM
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Is this even possible?

My female had puppies May 6th, a little over a month ago. The last three days, the male has been acting like she's going into heat, and yesterday I saw him trying to mount her twice. She's still feeding the puppies. Dogs are supposed to go into heat twice a year... she did that in March. Can she possibly be in heat? Can she get pregnant at this time? That just goes against everything I've learned studying all this from breeders and vets.

Also, I want to get my male neutered. I don't want his sexual organs removed, just the tubes tied. When I call the vet what do I call this procedure. I asked him the same about my female, and he told me they don't do that there (partial spaying?), and he was going to send me somewhere else.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:06 AM
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I seriously doubt if she is in heat again, especially if she is still nursing puppies. Mounting behaviour is just "playing" and can sometimes, according to some "experts", have more to do with sorting out pack order (dominance/submission heirarchies) than anything sexual.

In order to successfully breed, dogs need to be able to achieve a tie, which you already know, and some inexperienced males need help with that and inexperienced females need to be supervised to make sure no one gets hurt.

That said, I commend you for doing the extra work and expense to get a vasectomy for your little guy. Doing anything "controversial" is going to be a headache, but our dogs are worth it.

Gonadectomy is practiced in veterinary schools until they can do it in their sleep, but less invasive procedures require "new" skills and new ways of thinking. It is not easy to find a veterinarian who will even listen to you. Most of my conversations end with "the spay and neuter clinic has vouchers if you can't afford it".

I am assuming that you are in the US, of course. In many countries you would be able to get a tubal ligation for your dog just as easily as you can get one for yourself.

If you were able to find a referral for a partial spay, that is worth celebrating:

but do be aware of the science behind ovariectomy vs hysterectomy; my girls (now plural) will still have the same risk of spay incontinence from estrogen deficiency but can keep their uteruses with no risk of pyometra.

Stump pyometra is possible if the surgeon doesn't remove the entire uterus during the hysterectomy. However, your bitch would continue to cycle with no "mess" and her endocrine system would remain intact.

I would love to discuss options to gonadectomy with you via PM. The mods have been very polite about asking me to let my public thread die.

As a new dog owner, I don't always know what controversial topics are analagous to breastfeeding/bottlefeeding and home birth/hospital birth. As an experienced forum user, I do know how nasty these "flame wars" can become.

So to make a short story long, no, I do not think it is likely that your bitch is coming into heat again.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:15 PM
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Sorry for not responding sooner. I've been taking care of puppies and studying the information you gave. Thank you for all the time you put into your response.

I don't believe in vaccinating, neutering, etc. and haven't for a long time. The only reason I'm thinking in terms of neutering is that I wasn't able to keep her from getting pregnant in the first place... so I'm not trusting myself to keep it from happening again.

I spent days studying what vets and breeders had to say about a dog going into heat, behaviors to watch for, etc. It didn't happen that way. So my little 6 lb maltipoo got pregnant through my 8.5 lb chorkie, and it was her first time in heat. I took her in for an x-ray to find out how many puppies to expect, and the vet came back and said, "They have to come out NOW... If you take her home now, she and the puppies will die." They were too big to get through. In the end, she had 4 little puppies that look like their daddy, and she's doing really good... but it was a scare. I can't put her through that again.

On the subject of neutering or spaying, I think everyone should see this video:

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Old 06-11-2019, 08:34 PM
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Why would you not vaccine your animals? You're not concerned about parvo or distemper or rabies? Are you not familiar with the pain and suffering caused by those diseases?
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:31 PM
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Most diseases, animal and human, can be controlled easily and more effectively naturally. Vaccines and pharmaceutical drugs were created for the purpose of making money, not preventative medicine.

I could list hundreds of websites and videos by doctors, veterinarians, scientists and researchers that state clearly how dangerous these things are. On the human side, there's this big thing going on about measles outbreaks. If you actually study it, you find that the people getting measles are the ones who got the vaccinations, not the unvaccinated. There was also an outbreak of mumps on some naval ship, where all of the seamen got mandatory vaccinations... they had to keep the ship out at sea to isolate it. Same is true of vaccinations for dogs... they are more likely to get the disease, more likely to have other diseases and physical problems, and more likely to die of cancer if vaccinated. Think of cancer and autism... it has gone up exponentially and in tandem with the use of vaccines.

On a more personal note, my mother got the flu vaccine 10/31/19. Two days later she had a massive stroke, and died 9 days later. You might think that's a fluke, but a woman one block away from here had the vaccine the same day, a massive stroke two days later, and she died immediately. Coincidence?

The information is out there, but well censored from the public. I have one breeder website where she only does holistic things with her dogs, with extensive information about vaccines. I'm not showing it here because I don't want people sending her nasty emails because they aren't willing to study this.

I'm just stating facts, that aren't generally believed because that isn't what we've been taught. I'm not meaning to be harsh, judgmental or rude... so I apologize if it sounds that way. I just know how people react to these kinds of facts.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:33 PM
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Hey, no worries; I wasn't even online until after you already replied. I've got a six pounder and an eleven pounder so I totally get what a scare that must have been. I'm glad she's okay and I hope the puppies' new families can help you out with finances.
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:52 AM
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After watching a puppy have to be put to sleep due to distemper pretty much frying it's brain...causing it to foam at the mouth and walk in circles... I think distemper shots are less of a risk of anything as terrible as what I saw with that puppy.

Also in most areas, rabies shots are required.

I live in the countryside in Idaho and no way would I let my pets be exposed to rabies! If your dog is bit here by any wild animal...and you didn't get it rabies shots, it can be put down. And if your dog or cat nips someone and breaks the can be put down to be checked to see if it has rabies. Most people bit by a dog without rabies shots won't wait and see...let the dog be under observation they want to know right away if they have to undergo treatment for it.

And for all the hundreds of people lambasting vaccines, there are thousands of vets and scientist who have run tests and observed after affects who determine it's safe.

Any drug, of course, can have side affects, some people/animal experience some of them or none of them. I think it has more to do with the individual more than the drugs...when side effects occur.

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Old 06-16-2019, 11:17 AM
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Some dogs react to discharge caused by pyometra or other disease. Keep an eye on your bitch.

Autism is not related to vaccines, by the way.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:49 AM
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Vaccines were created to save lives. Multiple creators of vaccines have provided the technology for free. Read up on Salk and Edward Jenner as well as Gates and the polio virus.

The information you are spreading is wrong and dangerous. I'm surprised that your vet will treat your dog without a rabies vaccination.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:55 AM
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Hello Everyone. Reminder to keep threads ON TOPIC. Also a reminder that giving out medical advice or diagnostics is not permitted. This includes, but is not limited to vaccine recommendations. Everyone has strong opinions on this, but the Mod Team highly encourages anyone and everyone to speak to their vet to determine the best course of action for their own dog(s).

To the OP: No, she is not in season again, it sounds like over-arousal on the part of your boy. I would keep him away from her as she is likely already tired and annoyed from dealing with puppies and having a Caesarean section.

The procedure you are looking for is a Vasectomy in males or you can get your female an Ovary Sparing Spay (OSS) to leave the hormones in tact. Keep in mind that a dog with a vasectomy will still have the desire to breed, so when your female is in heat, they could still tie. So it will be important that you figure out a way to a) Detect your girls heat, and b) keep your dogs separate (2 physical barriers is ideal).

Also, twice a year is the AVERAGE for dogs, but there is such a huge range that it is really dog dependant. After your girl cycles a few times, you would get to know the pattern. Small dogs (and yours is tiny) tend to cycle 2-3 times a year, and get their first cycle early. Both my Border Collies didnít have their first heat until after a year old.

But based on the fact that this is her first season (So I will assume she is under a year old) Iím surprised the vet did not opt to simply terminate the pregnancy.

Either way, glad your girl is doing fine.
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