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Is it wrong not to crate train?

This is a discussion on Is it wrong not to crate train? within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; is it a crime to let Ur dogs ride unsecured in the car? - no. But do U ride w/o a seatbelt? -- do Ur ...

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Old 11-08-2017, 09:54 AM
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Smile Detroit fought seat-belts for decades. // I think crates will become SOP.



is it a crime to let Ur dogs ride unsecured in the car? - no.
But do U ride w/o a seatbelt? -- do Ur kids?
[in many states, kids are a special case, as state laws frequently require that even if the 18-&-up crowd opts to go beltless, kids need either infant-seats, child-restraints, or seat-belts.]

I was truly thankful that VA -finally- passed legislation that banned all loose dogs or other livestock in the beds of pick-up trucks, while i lived here; ppl casually stuffed the dog in the truck-bed & took off at 60-mph on the 'interstate' that ran between Norfolk & Va Bch all the time, & dogs were frequently ejected, jumped out, fell over the side on turns or in skids, etc, & were hit by other vehicles, lost & never reunited, or seriously injured.

VA's weird history with seatbelts & 'privacy' meant that it took a concerted TEN YEaR effort to get a bill passed that allowed a State cop to warn U if U weren't wearing a seat-belt, & only if they stopped U for a different reason; they couldn't fine U, there were no repercussions, they could inform U of the risks, & say it was important for safety... And then watch U depart, still beltless.
So getting dogs out of the truck-bed & inside the vehicle was a major, major advance.

Even inside the vehicle, unsecured is dangerous - loose with a window open, even more so. // Letting a dog shove their head into the windstream is very, very bad practice - no only does it ramjet microdebris into the eyes, ears, & nose, causing infections & other chronic injuries, but serious physical trauma is done by small objects flying at high speeds.
A vet-tech near me in Va Bch had a critical injury come in, the owners had driven from Michigan with their dog in the back seat, her head in the 4-inch gap at the top of the driver's side rear-window. They were less than 3-miles from the Beach exit & their hotel when the dog shrieked & began thrashing in the back-seat, blood everywhere. They pulled to the shoulder, the wife got in back & held the dog pinned on her lap, & they drove to a gas-station for directions to the nearest vet. [No cell-phones - only govt officials & well-heeled criminals had them.]
Luckily, there was a clinic a mile away; they drove straight there. // The dog, an 18-MO Golden, had apparently been hit in the eye by a large insect, probly a beetle; her left eyeball imploded, & was gone.
They gave the dog pain-meds, sedated her, kept her overnight; the couple, stunned & sick with worry, went to their hotel. [The vet wanted to send the woman to the E-R, she was near hysteria on arrival, & in shock, afterward, but she refused to go; he did insist they leave their car, took the keys, & called a cab for them. They were in no condition to drive.]
The next day, surgery to close the wound; the day after that, the long trip back to Michigan - they'd wiped out their cushion, treating the dog, & had just-enuf money to get home. Their long-planned vacay ended with a 2-night stay & a one-eyed dog.

A few years B4 that, in Pennsy, my friend John Haag, poet-emeritus of PSU, had a Malinois he adored; he always put her in the bed of his mini-truck, where she developed the extremely-annoying hobby of racing along the side & barking loudly at any vehicle with a diesel engine - trucks, cars, buses... motorcycles were her special hatred.
He ignored all suggestions that getting her into the cab & restrained would be safer - for her, & for other motorists, who'd try to avoid hitting a 60# dog if they could, when she landed in the roadway.
His luck - & hers - ran out, when he was in a minor accident with TWO other vehicles at an intersection 2-miles from home; it wasn't high-speed or a terrific impact, but she was flung out of the bed & onto the road, & was missing for 3-days.
4 teeth were knocked clear out of her head; she had jaw injuries, eye injuries, 3 broken ribs & 4 fractured ribs down her L side, torn muscles, a fractured foreleg, torn tendon in the L rear, road-rash & gravel in her skin everywhere, & could barely stand - walking was out of the question.
[One toe had to be amputated - ground-down by asphalt, infected, it was gangrenous. Luckily an outside toe, on the L rear.]
She nearly died b/c she ran from the scene, huddled under bushes, & refused to so much as whine when ppl called to her - another DOG found her, while the owner was fortuitously walking home after a flat-tire. That itself was a minor miracle - ppl don't "walk" on rural 2-lane high-crowned roads, miles from any town or village. They drive.

She spent over a month being toddled in a sling to toilet, with shaved patches & random stitches everywhere; IIRC, it was 2-mos or 10-wks before she could trot, & longer B4 she ran again - his deer-chasing dog was suddenly a plodder.

b/c her crate was used in the house & my Akita traveled by car fairly often, i used a seatbelt harness & taught her to lie down when the car was moving. She also wore a box-muzzle - i was taking zero chances that my dog would be shot by some trigger-happy cop if she growled at someone, after an accident.
Her crate also meant that we were welcome at hotels, as she could be safely confined & i could leave w/o worrying the maid would let the dog out, or the dog would puncture some dimwit who backed her into a corner "to pet her". Ppl do those things - U must protect the dog from well-meaning eejits.
If we stayed with family or friends, again, she had a safe place that kept the kids from harassing her, & the family cat safe from the dog, too.

When i evacuated for a hurricane, her crate came to the hotel - she slept in it, & when i left the room, she was crated. // I'd never let my dog on furniture, especially a bed, but this prevented any chance she'd get into or onto stuff she shouldn't, while unsupervised. 3 hurricanes in 12 years meant several hotel stays, on high ground inland.

When i fostered dogs with behavior issues, EVERYbody was crated, & when i ran out of crates, leftover dogs were tethered - on 2-ft ties with 6-ft between dogs. [That only happened once - 4 dogs for 4 days; 2 spare crates, 2 dogs tethered.]

For housetraining, crates are the only way to do it error-free; U can't possibly prevent EVERY housetraining mistake without a crate in the process, IMO.
Even retirees with no schedule to keep other than their own, cannot IME devote the time to supervision that means "zero mistakes" -- & mistakes are always the human's fault, never the dog's.

I love crates; my dogs have loved their crates; when the roof was being repaired at my older-sis' house, my Akita spent 4-days in her open crate, emerging at night, & for meals or potty trips. Footsteps overhead & hammers banging on the roof from dawn to dusk were just too weird. In the crate, she felt safe.

I can foresee a time when shipping-crates or rated seatbelt-harnesses are mandatory for dogs or other pets; bodies become unguided missiles in an impact. It's safer for everyone, even other motorists, when pets are restrained.

JME / IMO - YMMV,
- terry


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Old 11-08-2017, 11:44 AM
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is it a crime to let Ur dogs ride unsecured in the car? - no.
But do U ride w/o a seatbelt? -- do Ur kids?
[in many states, kids are a special case, as state laws frequently require that even if the 18-&-up crowd opts to go beltless, kids need either infant-seats, child-restraints, or seat-belts.]

I was truly thankful that VA -finally- passed legislation that banned all loose dogs or other livestock in the beds of pick-up trucks, while i lived here; ppl casually stuffed the dog in the truck-bed & took off at 60-mph on the 'interstate' that ran between Norfolk & Va Bch all the time, & dogs were frequently ejected, jumped out, fell over the side on turns or in skids, etc, & were hit by other vehicles, lost & never reunited, or seriously injured.

VA's weird history with seatbelts & 'privacy' meant that it took a concerted TEN YEaR effort to get a bill passed that allowed a State cop to warn U if U weren't wearing a seat-belt, & only if they stopped U for a different reason; they couldn't fine U, there were no repercussions, they could inform U of the risks, & say it was important for safety... And then watch U depart, still beltless. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.dogforum.com/images/smilies/other/rolleye.gif[/IMG]
So getting dogs out of the truck-bed & inside the vehicle was a major, major advance.

Even inside the vehicle, unsecured is dangerous - loose with a window open, even more so. // Letting a dog shove their head into the windstream is very, very bad practice - no only does it ramjet microdebris into the eyes, ears, & nose, causing infections & other chronic injuries, but serious physical trauma is done by small objects flying at high speeds.
A vet-tech near me in Va Bch had a critical injury come in, the owners had driven from Michigan with their dog in the back seat, her head in the 4-inch gap at the top of the driver's side rear-window. They were less than 3-miles from the Beach exit & their hotel when the dog shrieked & began thrashing in the back-seat, blood everywhere. They pulled to the shoulder, the wife got in back & held the dog pinned on her lap, & they drove to a gas-station for directions to the nearest vet. [No cell-phones - only govt officials & well-heeled criminals had them.]
Luckily, there was a clinic a mile away; they drove straight there. // The dog, an 18-MO Golden, had apparently been hit in the eye by a large insect, probly a beetle; her left eyeball imploded, & was gone.
They gave the dog pain-meds, sedated her, kept her overnight; the couple, stunned & sick with worry, went to their hotel. [The vet wanted to send the woman to the E-R, she was near hysteria on arrival, & in shock, afterward, but she refused to go; he did insist they leave their car, took the keys, & called a cab for them. They were in no condition to drive.]
The next day, surgery to close the wound; the day after that, the long trip back to Michigan - they'd wiped out their cushion, treating the dog, & had just-enuf money to get home. Their long-planned vacay ended with a 2-night stay & a one-eyed dog. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.dogforum.com/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG]

A few years B4 that, in Pennsy, my friend John Haag, poet-emeritus of PSU, had a Malinois he adored; he always put her in the bed of his mini-truck, where she developed the extremely-annoying hobby of racing along the side & barking loudly at any vehicle with a diesel engine - trucks, cars, buses... motorcycles were her special hatred.
He ignored all suggestions that getting her into the cab & restrained would be safer - for her, & for other motorists, who'd try to avoid hitting a 60# dog if they could, when she landed in the roadway.
His luck - & hers - ran out, when he was in a minor accident with TWO other vehicles at an intersection 2-miles from home; it wasn't high-speed or a terrific impact, but she was flung out of the bed & onto the road, & was missing for 3-days.
4 teeth were knocked clear out of her head; she had jaw injuries, eye injuries, 3 broken ribs & 4 fractured ribs down her L side, torn muscles, a fractured foreleg, torn tendon in the L rear, road-rash & gravel in her skin everywhere, & could barely stand - walking was out of the question.
[One toe had to be amputated - ground-down by asphalt, infected, it was gangrenous. Luckily an outside toe, on the L rear.]
She nearly died b/c she ran from the scene, huddled under bushes, & refused to so much as whine when ppl called to her - another DOG found her, while the owner was fortuitously walking home after a flat-tire. That itself was a minor miracle - ppl don't "walk" on rural 2-lane high-crowned roads, miles from any town or village. They drive.

She spent over a month being toddled in a sling to toilet, with shaved patches & random stitches everywhere; IIRC, it was 2-mos or 10-wks before she could trot, & longer B4 she ran again - his deer-chasing dog was suddenly a plodder.

b/c her crate was used in the house & my Akita traveled by car fairly often, i used a seatbelt harness & taught her to lie down when the car was moving. She also wore a box-muzzle - i was taking zero chances that my dog would be shot by some trigger-happy cop if she growled at someone, after an accident. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.dogforum.com/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]
Her crate also meant that we were welcome at hotels, as she could be safely confined & i could leave w/o worrying the maid would let the dog out, or the dog would puncture some dimwit who backed her into a corner "to pet her". [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.dogforum.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG] Ppl do those things - U must protect the dog from well-meaning eejits.
If we stayed with family or friends, again, she had a safe place that kept the kids from harassing her, & the family cat safe from the dog, too.

When i evacuated for a hurricane, her crate came to the hotel - she slept in it, & when i left the room, she was crated. // I'd never let my dog on furniture, especially a bed, but this prevented any chance she'd get into or onto stuff she shouldn't, while unsupervised. 3 hurricanes in 12 years meant several hotel stays, on high ground inland.

When i fostered dogs with behavior issues, EVERYbody was crated, & when i ran out of crates, leftover dogs were tethered - on 2-ft ties with 6-ft between dogs. [That only happened once - 4 dogs for 4 days; 2 spare crates, 2 dogs tethered.]

For housetraining, crates are the only way to do it error-free; U can't possibly prevent EVERY housetraining mistake without a crate in the process, IMO.
Even retirees with no schedule to keep other than their own, cannot IME devote the time to supervision that means "zero mistakes" -- & mistakes are always the human's fault, never the dog's. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.dogforum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

I love crates; my dogs have loved their crates; when the roof was being repaired at my older-sis' house, my Akita spent 4-days in her open crate, emerging at night, & for meals or potty trips. Footsteps overhead & hammers banging on the roof from dawn to dusk were just too weird. In the crate, she felt safe.

I can foresee a time when shipping-crates or rated seatbelt-harnesses are mandatory for dogs or other pets; bodies become unguided missiles in an impact. It's safer for everyone, even other motorists, when pets are restrained.

JME / IMO - YMMV,
- terry




We have a seatbelt harness for her in the car, and she doesn't stick her head out the window, short rides she just looks out the window and rides longer than 10 min she's asleep in the back!
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:06 PM
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We have a seatbelt harness for her in the car, and she doesn't stick her head out the window, short rides she just looks out the window and rides longer than 10 min she's asleep in the back!
Oh you are lucky with the head out the window thing :-):-) Mine will stick their heads and front paws out hahaha :-):-) They never jump but it's super cute to see :-):-):-) You have a very good puppy :-):-):-)

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Old 11-08-2017, 12:16 PM
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Sonic loves his crate but I respect those who come to different conclusions and raise and train their dogs otherwise.
Enjoy your dog.
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:59 PM
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Now I'm thinking I might need a helmet for my dog.
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MarvelousMabel View Post
We have a seatbelt harness for her in the car, and she doesn't stick her head out the window, short rides she just looks out the window and rides longer than 10 min she's asleep in the back!
Oh you are lucky with the head out the window thing :-):-) Mine will stick their heads and front paws out hahaha :-):-) They never jump but it's super cute to see :-):-):-) You have a very good puppy :-):-):-)

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She is a good girl, but she is used to long car rides as I had to commute to work early in the morning and she's lazy in the mornings so now just sleeps in the car
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:04 PM
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Now I'm thinking I might need a helmet for my dog.
Helmet?? Just in case you hit a tree or something?? Dogs have hard heads LOL just kidding :-):-):-):-)

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Old 11-08-2017, 02:06 PM
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She is a good girl, but she is used to long car rides as I had to commute to work early in the morning and she's lazy in the mornings so now just sleeps in the car
That's GREAT spectacular!!! :-):-):-) Takes mine 45 minutes to lay down and that's only for an hour hahaha :-):-):-) Other wise all of then are going back and forth on the back seat cover thing I have for them LOL :-):-):-) Very good girl Lazy but good :-):-) I don't blame her for not being a morning person or dog hahaha :-):-)

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Old 11-08-2017, 02:22 PM
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Helmet?? Just in case you hit a tree or something?? Dogs have hard heads LOL just kidding :-):-):-):-)

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I think it was to avoid the exploding eyeballs example.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:24 PM
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I think it was to avoid the exploding eyeballs example.
Probably I was trying to have fun :-):-) He could put safety glasses on the dog :-):-):-)

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