Is it wrong not to crate train? - Page 2

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Is it wrong not to crate train?

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Old 11-07-2017, 07:39 PM
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Is it wrong this day and age to just have one's dog travel in the car without being in a crate?
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Sthelena View Post
Does anyone here over the age of 35 remember people having crated indoor dogs when you were kids? I dont remember people having many indoor dogs at all where i grew up.....
Dog crates are a relatively new creation, used for transporting military dogs during WWII and then produced for the general public around 1962. However, I have seen other information which suggests crates were used to transport hunting dogs in the 1920's, so who knows for sure? But, as you mentioned most all the dogs in the neighborhood I grew up in were either outside dogs (you know dog house and all) or would be indoors as well as outdoors.

The reason I ended up having GSDs was because of a particular GSD that lived in our neighborhood, Lady lived outside mostly and never left her yard, no tether, no leash, no chain, no Invisible fence, no nothing. She was just a well trained dog, she actually knew the yard boundaries. As kids we used to make a game of seeing who could run the farthest into Lady's yard and Lady would always appear out of nowhere to give chase but as soon as we were across the boundary, she would stop chasing, it amazed me. However, if she caught up to you while in her yard, she'd give you a nip on the butt just to let you know she gotcha, nothing harsh but just enough to let you know who won. Years later, I asked the old man how he trained Lady to understand the boundaries of his yard and he just smiled and said " I trained her that way". He also added that he would see us through his window playing this game, running through his yard and thought it was okay, kids just being kids. I don't know how he trained Lady so well and doubt I'll ever have one so disciplined during the chase. She was an outside dog mostly and I rather doubt too many crooks ever thought about breaking into his house. Didn't seem "ridiculous" to me when the dog was guarding the outside territory.
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:20 PM
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I appreciate all the responses, and I have been leaving it open for her to lie in if she wants! I've never seen her do it while I am there but she may when I am gone I think that I will begin to get her used to the crate, even if it is just open, for the reasons that have been listed (vets, dog shows). I do work at a doggie daycare and take her to work with me sometimes where she has to be in a kennel when taking a break from her all day play group, and she throws a fit in there so I can see the need. I probably won't be crating her when I leave because of the added stress, and I'm glad that I don't seem to be doing any harm by choosing not to crate! Originally I thought she had some separation issues from me because she would go nuts in the crate, but we have been working on that (sleeping in separate rooms) and I now believe the crate may have been the stressor.
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DriveDog View Post
Is it wrong this day and age to just have one's dog travel in the car without being in a crate?
My dogs travel in the car crate free. They are fantastic travelers, and as soon as they see we are on the highway, they just lay down and sleep.
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DriveDog View Post
Is it wrong this day and age to just have one's dog travel in the car without being in a crate?
All of mine ride without a Crate on rides :-) They also lay down on my floor once they are nine months and up no crates at all :-):-)

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Old 11-08-2017, 12:04 AM
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I'm not a big proponent of crating dogs just for the sake of it if they can be left free at home without issue, and my dog doesn't even have a crate at my house. That said, the ability to relax quietly in a crate is a very useful behavior to teach, as you never know when you might have to confine your dog due to unforeseen circumstances. In the event that you find yourself at a hotel while traveling or due to any sort of evacuation, a crated dog is much more likely to be accepted, likewise when visiting family who may or may not want to babysit your dog if you go somewhere without them.

It makes sense that it is safer for dogs to be confined in a crate or secured by a crash tested restraint belt when in the car, as if you wreck with any speed, they will become a projectile, injuring themselves and who knows what/who else. My sister had a rollover accident in her SUV a few years ago (30-40 MPH, another car lost control and essentially performed an uncontrolled "pit" maneuver on her), and her back hatch popped open, strewing the contents of her vehicle over the 200 feet of highway her car slid across- items that didn't get ejected through the open door and broken windows included screwdrivers skewered through the windshield .

That said, I'm guilty of letting my dog ride free in the car, as it's easy to just pop the door open and let him get in, and you wouldn't know he's in there usually he's so well behaved. I do keep a soft crate in the vehicle in case I stop to get groceries then make more stops (he likes to rummage the bags if there's anything good and I exit the vehicle), or bring another animal to work with me (my grandmoms' & neighbor's dogs both ride crated because they move around and distract, as well as my cats if I have to take one of them for grooming or medical care). I've also sheltered random animals/items (birds, bottle feeding kittens, carry out food) in the crate to prevent him from eating them while I drive home, but that's another story . It's currently "open"/set up and in the back seat because he likes to get in it and sleep, but can be folded up and stored in a small space if needed. Last week I went to pick up styrofoam insulation panels directly after leaving work, so had him with me. Got out to the vehicle with my purchases only to discover that they didn't quite fit! Had to drive home with the back hatch cracked open about 12"- I was really glad I had a crate, as I could secure him in that up front near me and know he wasn't going to jump or fall out of the back while driving down the highway. I figure his soft crate would be minimal protection in the event of a crash, but really need to get a sturdy crate and use it!

I volunteer with a pet therapy dog group, and have popped my dogs into mine or other peoples' crates in order to help with set up/take down at events without worrying about what my dog is getting into. My dog also will relax while tied out or to an item in a pinch, but there's something to be said for the security of 4 solid walls separating your dog from the environment . Many dog events require dogs to be crate or confined in cars, when not actively competing.

All this to say that while I'm not the biggest fan of crating as a "lifestyle", I think it's a good thing for a dog to learn, and would work to make hanging out in there a positive thing, though I wouldn't keep her in it throughout the day if she is trustworthy out.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:58 AM
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Well then I guess I'm in the crowd that favors crate training in case its needed, but not for everyday life.
I'm in a line of work where I'm in many different peoples houses everyday, and can remember when I first starting seeing crates everywhere......about 20 years ago for my area.
Before I knew better I actually thought it was cruel to keep your dog locked up indoors in a little box....but like @DriveDog said I'd really only seen outdoor dogs and dogs that come inside at times but live outside. We had gsds growing up, but they werent allowed indoors at all, they lived in the yard and had a job to do- guarding. But they still got obedience trained, played with etc. We had large tracks of woods around us, and the dogs always went with me when I went into the woods to plays and hunt squirrels and such. It was pretty awesome being a kid wandering around in the woods with a couple of big dogs to watch out for me lol.
I like crates, and use them when needed, but personally, I'd rather see a dog left outside with food, water and shade during the day than be locked in a tiny box indoors all day. If the dog cant be left loose in the house that is....and these days, the only reason I dont leave my current dogs outside in my fenced property during the day rather than indoors, is basically the risk of our dogs escaping and being shot or stolen.......
Just my lersonal opinion though, and I'm a live and let live kinda guy, so no offense meant to others who see things differently!
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Sthelena View Post
I'm a live and let live kinda guy, so no offense meant to others who see things differently!

Same here. As far as the "Great Crate Debate" goes, it all comes done to what the particular individual desires, so I don't much care what others might do as long as the use or non-use of containment doesn't jeopardize a dog's well-being.

Many have cited examples when crating just makes good sense and I have seen crates used in management situations in multi-dog settings and other times where it is essentially required.

Hey Sthelena, the picture you paint of your childhood wanderings through the woods with your two loyal guardians puts a smile on my face, it's storybook for certain, wonderful memories that last a lifetime.

With that in mind and running the risk of hijacking the thread; we are all familiar with the adage " a dog is man's best friend", I believe it states this on the opening page of this forum and I have always wondered if we as humans reciprocate by being a dog's best friend, returning in kind. I suppose it somewhat correlates to the topic of crates regardless whether we use them or don't use them but more as how we choose to use them. As stupid as this will sound, I apologize to my dog for having to put a leash on her, a necessary evil I guess.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:47 AM
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@DriveDog I wholeheartedly agree the key is in how we use them. I have a problem with them when they are used as a means of containment in place of proper training.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:23 AM
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I crate train my dogs I think it helps immensely especially with puppies but as the dogs get older and less destructive the less I use the crate
My Great Dane that just passed away had an open crate she laid in especially to get away from the puppy but it was always her choice wether she used it or not and it was never closed she used it every day
My 1 yr old puppy still uses a play pen when I'm at work I cannot trust him not to use the tv remote as a chew toy lol so he will probably stay in the pen for a while
If your dog is trustworthy I see no reason to use a crate
I think it's just a great tool to help get your dog to that point
I do use a crate with my 1 year old in the car he is very nervous if he's not in one but I never used a crate with any of my other dogs in the car I just went through lots of training to teach them to stay in the backseat


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