Is it wrong not to crate train?

Go Back   Dog Forum > Keeping and Caring for Dogs > Dog Training and Behavior

Is it wrong not to crate train?

This is a discussion on Is it wrong not to crate train? within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; Hi Guys! I have a question about crate training with my puppy, Mabel. We had initially started out with crate training her during the night ...

User Tag List

Like Tree25Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-07-2017, 02:22 PM
  #1
Senior Member
 
MarvelousMabel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 145
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Is it wrong not to crate train?

Hi Guys!

I have a question about crate training with my puppy, Mabel. We had initially started out with crate training her during the night and when we were gone from the house. She has hated the crate almost the entire time we have had her, and I really did try to make it a fun place for her to be. She only got her favourite treats when she went in the crate, and we played crate games, she got fed in her crate etc. Even still, she would howl and bark like mad, so much so that there was a great deal of saliva all around the outside of her crate. By this point she was not sleeping in her crate, because she was reliably housetrained and did not require it anymore. One day I finally said enough to the crate, because she was starting to disturb the neighbours and I do have to leave the house, and figured I would take my chances. I left her out of the crate while I went to the store, and she was fine! Nothing was torn up, I had filmed her and she whined a bit but then went to lay on her bed. So I guess my question is, is it harmful to her if she doesn't tolerate a crate? I dont see any danger if she is not destructive and settles perfectly well outside the crate, but I am worried she may be missing out on having a 'den-like' atmosphere. Right now she is only being left for a few hours outside the crate, as I am currently a dog-walker and either take her with me on the walks or come between them to play with her. If I ever get a job with more hours (9-5), then I would like to leave her alone for a few hours (till lunch), then let her out and take her for a walk and leave her for the rest of the day. Any opinons on this would be greatly appreciated
MarvelousMabel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 02:48 PM
  #2
Senior Member
 
Markie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,485
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Maybe not harmful but if she would have to go to the vet and stay over night. She would be in a crate they don't just leave them out :-):-) I personally crate train mine as puppies. Then I let them run free 9 months on in the house. :-):-) If you don't plan on her having any vet sleepovers or going any place that's requires a crate then I don't see a problem in her not being in a crate :-):-)

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Markie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 02:55 PM
  #3
Dog Forum ModeraTHOR
 
Shandula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Windsor, Canada
Posts: 4,608
Mentioned: 1383 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Is it wrong? Certainly not. As Markie suggests, if you ever need to leave your dog at the vet, or to be boarded, dog sports, or an injury, the crate is going to be your BFF, and it is SO much worse when your dog isn't used to it.

I would keep at it, make it as fun as possible, just don't close the door. That is the biggest mistake people make, they essentially "trick" their dogs into going in, then trap them. I would keep making it an amazing place WITHOUT closing the door.

One of the things I do with my dogs is put something amazing inside the crate (stuffed Kong, chicken quarter, soup bone with marrow), and close the door, with my dog outside the crate. They'll start pawing, whining, trying to get into the crate. "Oh do you want in there?" Then I'll open the door and let them in. If they try to bring the treat out, I put it back in the crate. Worked wonders for my dogs.
yoshiposhi and leashedForLife like this.
Shandula is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 11-07-2017, 05:51 PM
  #4
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boston metro-area, USA
Posts: 1,885
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Question what kind of crate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shandula View Post

...
... I ... put something amazing inside the crate (stuffed Kong, chicken quarter, soup bone with marrow), & [latch] the door, with my dog outside the crate. They... paw, whine, trying to get into the crate. "Oh... do you want in there?" Then I open the door, and let them in.
If they try to bring the treat out, I put it back in the crate.

Worked wonders for my dogs.


This one. Having the dog DEMAND to get into the crate puts a whole new spin on the concept.
Let them get a bit frustrated - scratch at the door, etc. Then open the door, & get outta the way.


BTW, is Ur crate a shipping-kennel? - Or a wire show-crate?
The airline-approved shipper is IME by far the better option. The bottom is single-piece & won't leak; good models have a 'moat' around a raised center platform to allow spills to drain off, leaving the dog relatively clean. The solid lower walls prevent floor-level drafts, while the vents in the upper half provide excellent air-circulation.
When the dog lies down, they have privacy; there's only ONE p-o-v that's inescapable, & that's the door, face-on. They can't pee thru the walls; they can't pull stuff thru the roof to shred it.
Plus, it's the ultimate safe transport, & after U arrive, it's a familiar bedroom or safe confinement.

Wire AKA show-crates are actually dangerous in vehicles, & not only to the occupant; every rod is a potential skewer. They can collapse, break & eject the pet, fold & trap the pet, bend & require the Jaws of Life to get the pet out, or just crush in an impact - or pop rods, & make shish-kebab of the pet, or anyone else.
At home, their shallow trays split [plastic], bend [metal], crack [plastic], rust & flake paint [metal], warp [plastic], corrode [metal]. They also splash pee, poop, vomit, spilled water or food, etc, all over when the dog gets up & walks around, or worse yet, gets excited.
Dogs can learn to slide sideways over the door like mail thru a slot; this often bends the roof irreparably. [Airline-approved crates are virtually impossible to escape from.]
M dogs can pee right thru the 'walls'; hanging a sheet over a show-crate to provide privacy or shut-off visual stimuli only gives the dog a challenge - pull it in, & shred it.

If it's a show-crate, i'd urge U to look on-line for a used shipping-kennel. CraigsList, eBay, GumTree, FREECycle, etc - a used crate saves approx half the cost of new-retail.
They last for a couple of decades, & unlike show-crates, they're easy to clean & disinfect. Then U can return the wire-model to the seller, while it's still in good shape.

- terry

leashedForLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 05:59 PM
  #5
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boston metro-area, USA
Posts: 1,885
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Arrow Shipping-crates are safe, tested for burst-strength, light, & portable.



As several have said, anytime she travels, she'll need one - on the way, & once arrived. If she's hurt or sick, pulls a muscle / injures a joint / cuts a pad, etc, she may need crate rest. Post-surgery; during estrus; diarrhea; who knows what.
At the vet's, she'll be in a cube or a crate - it's better if she's relaxed there.

If U need to evac, she needs a shipping crate for the trip - & to be very comfy in it.
Floods, fires, storm damage, civil unrest, _____ . Life happens. :shrug:
It's always best to be prepared.
- terry

leashedForLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 06:15 PM
  #6
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,404
Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I don't see anything wrong with not choosing to use a crate. If your dog can be trusted to have free reign of the house or a particular area and stay safe, why would you use a crate? I think your concern of the dog missing out on having a "den-like" atmosphere is overrated at times and is more a rationalization of justifying crate use at times. If you feel the need, just leave the crate out somewhere with the door off or pinned open and if your dog wants, she can go den up in the crate. Personally, I feel better not crating my dog while I am gone and nothing beats the wonderful greeting one gets every time you walk in the front door.
Chas, Markie and lprov like this.
DriveDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 06:43 PM
  #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 548
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mine are loose in the house once fully housebroken and non destructive.
DriveDog and Markie like this.
Sthelena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 06:47 PM
  #8
Senior Member
 
Chas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,627
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Not crate training could be an issue for vet visits or emergencies. Many crate trained dogs don't get locked in them often. To correct the negative conditioned emotional response you would need to use a counter conditioning protocol. The link below is an excellent example of what counter conditionng looks like.

Edit: also leave the crate open and available at all times, helps normalise it.

leashedForLife likes this.

Last edited by Chas; 11-07-2017 at 06:49 PM.
Chas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 06:52 PM
  #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 548
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Does anyone here over the age of 35 remember people having crated indoor dogs when you were kids? I dont remember people having many indoor dogs at all where i grew up.....
DriveDog likes this.
Sthelena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 07:26 PM
  #10
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boston metro-area, USA
Posts: 1,885
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Talking Indoors all the way.



Outside dogs? - plenty, in my long-ago childhood. // None since, not in my family - & never any of mine. :thumbdown:

the 1st dog i remember in our family was a Beagle bitch, we got her as an 8-WO pup; I was 6; my sire thot he could make a hunting dog of her.
She lived on a chain, attached to an uninsulated wooden hutch just big-enuf to curl up & shiver in, in winter. She was not allowed in the house after she reached 4-MO - she was banished.

At 6-mos, she entered her 1st estrus; my sire put her into one of the disused chicken-coops, chained to a post. // Our neighbor's white GSD jumped in thru the window, & bred her. She was taken to the local shelter the very next day. . So much for outdoor dogs, unspayed Fs who aren't breeding candidates, unintended litters, & dumping "loved" pets at shelters.

I saw more 'outdoor' dogs living in fenced yards during the 12-yrs i spent in Ye Olde Dominion than in the 30-plus years b4 that, in Pennsy. I also saw more chained dogs in Norfolk & Va Beach than i'd ever seen, in our rural farm-county; often, the city & suburb dogs were chained to pipe banisters, with the porch floor as their only roof.

Unless the dog is outdoors for a functional reason [not b/c s/he isn't housetrained, or chews stuff, or commits other sins], I don't approve of 'outdoor' dogs. They are often bored, frequently neglected & lonely, may or may not get HW-preventive, & spend most of their lives inside a fence, or on a chain.
LGD, with a flock or herd? - sure - A pet-dog? No.


As for "guarding", leaving their dog outside to 'guard' is ridiculous - what's the dog protecting? The blue spruce in the front yard? - the 75-ft garden hose?
Anything worth defending is in the house - which [IMO] is where dogs belong, with their families. No malicious human passersby to harass or hurt them; not tortured by flystrike on their tender ears, or hot-spots in summer & fleas year-round.
- terry

leashedForLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My puppy has crate issues and separation anxiety bonniesmom Dog Training and Behavior 1 09-04-2017 10:54 PM
One year old German Shepherd starting to pee in crate kristina Dog Training and Behavior 3 06-13-2017 06:59 AM
Puppy crate training - still whining after 6 weeks finnickyaussies Dog Training and Behavior 5 05-15-2017 02:01 AM
My rescue hates her crate Dariod Dog Training and Behavior 7 05-08-2017 03:54 PM
Peeing & pooping in crate allisonnutt Puppy Help 3 03-10-2016 02:36 PM


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.