Window barking- is there a command for that?

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Window barking- is there a command for that?

This is a discussion on Window barking- is there a command for that? within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; So we've had Shamas for a couple of months now,and the wole time we've had the front windows closed. It's a temperature thing, those windows ...

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Old 01-22-2018, 02:55 PM
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Window barking- is there a command for that?

So we've had Shamas for a couple of months now,and the wole time we've had the front windows closed. It's a temperature thing, those windows are drafty so we don't often open them.

today we've been dealing with headaches, so instead of turning on lights we opened the curtains for filtered, cloudy light that would be easier on our heads..and Shamas is pretty vigilant about warning off would-be intruders(people just walking down the street)

Is there a correction/command for this behavior?

I'm just telling him things like "it's just the neighbour, come on down" and "nevermind them, they're just walking" Which *Usually* brings him away. But if there's a dog or man involved, he's hackles up and although he comes away, he makes mildly aggressive warning barks from his chair, paired with growls. These will continue until I leash him and we go to the door to confirm that the "intruder" is indeed gone.

What I do is open the inside front door, leaving the screen door...I show him the empty street, tell him it's all clear, or it's just the neighbour. then I say "that's enough, thank you shamas" and he goes back to laying down.

Shamas is not a scary window barker, he's just warning of potential threats. I don't want this to escalate into an unwanted behavior, and I dont want him to scare passers-by. I would like to be able to let in the light without Shamas feeling that he needs to guard the house from the inside.


I see some other dogs that go frantic at people walking by with dogs. They look really upset. I'd hate for this to be Shamas down the road if I don't deal with this now
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:15 AM
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Our dog Chance is also a window barker, except he is a scary window barker. Especially if it's a man or a dog. I have found doing the umbilical tie with him has been doing alot of good, when he isn't tied to us I find he is staying around us instead of going to the window. Except this morning, he had a relapse. We still haven't found a cure for his night barking at dogs he hears in the distance, I'm interested what people have to say about your issue, maybe it will help Chance to.
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:48 PM
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I'm still doing the umbilical tie with Shams when he has trouble with impulse control too. He has issues with the Prey drive, and wanting to see the cats. I hadn't thought about extending it to the window
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:02 AM
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So this morning Shamas ans I hit on a possible solution We'll see.

He heard the garbage truck which is one of his fear triggers. After hearing his alarm, we went to the front door and looked out. Instead of dismissing the thing outside as normal, I sat with him at the screen door and had a cheerful discussion with him about the garbage truck what it was doing and how tha man was throwing things into it-much as you would keep a commentary with a small child who can't talk back. His posture relaxed and he started wagging tail.

After the truck left, I told him he was a good boy and we got a treat.

We repeated these steps at the window a few minutes later with an empty street. I'm hoping that it'll help when a person walks by or a dog. My thought is that if a cheerful conversation ensues when he's calm, but he's checked and scolded for barking, logic would have him choose the better option...
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:20 AM
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Arrow DS / CC: Pavlov & behavior-modification

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassymomma View Post

... Instead of dismissing the thing outside as normal, I sat with him at the screen door & had a cheerful discussion... about [what] the garbage truck what was doing, & how that man threw things into it - much as you'd keep a commentary with a small child, who can't talk back. His posture relaxed & he started wagging.
After the truck left, I told him he was a good boy and we got a treat.

We repeated these steps at the window a few minutes later, with an empty street.
I'm hoping it'll help when a person walks by, or a dog. My thought is that if a cheerful conversation ensues when he's calm, but he's checked & scolded for barking, logic would have him choose the better option...
.

it's a great theory, but has some flaws.
Dogs are smart - but they're not philosophers, debating logic. There are indeed logical things that dogs grasp; the persistence of objects is one. If U put an object behind a screen, then remove the screen & the object is gone, dogs double-take. It's an obvious, "Huh!?!..." O.o "But it was there, just a second ago!..."
Another is fast-mapping - assigning a novel name to a novel object by elimination, as the familiar objects have known names. "If it's not A & it's not B or C, it must be D...", & D being the novel object, a new term is added to the vocabulary.

The Right Thing at the Right Time: Why Ostensive Naming Facilitates ...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3314248/
by EL Axelsson - ‎2012 - ‎Cited by 45 - ‎Related articles
Mar 28, 2012 -
That is, the child can use existing vocabulary (i.e., book and cup) to determine the referent of the novel name via process-of-elimination (see also Halberda, .... The authors argue that ostensive naming facilitated children's ability to effectively encode the name–object associations because it simultaneously ...


Get the Story Straight: Contextual Repetition Promotes Word Learning ...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3111254/
by JS Horst - ‎2011 - ‎Cited by 79 - ‎Related articles
Feb 17, 2011 -
Overall, then, we found a dramatic increase in children's ability to both recall and retain novel name–object associations encountered during shared .... then the child can determine that zorch must refer to the novel object via mutual exclusivity (Markman, 1990) or process-of-elimination (aka disjunctive ...



Fast mapping - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_mapping
The inability for children to understand color stems from the cognitive process of whole object constraint.
Whole object constraint is the idea that a child will understand that a novel word represents the entirety of that object. Then, if the child is presented with further novel words, they attach inferred meanings to the object.



However, that's about the level of logic of a 2 to 3-YO child, & dogs also believe many ILLOGICAL things -
for instance, that the dogs they see when they're poked by a prong-collar are the cause of the pokes, which only intensifies their frustration as the prong suppresses their reactive response.
A reactive dog whose lunges, barks, & hackling have all been successfully suppressed isn't "cured" - s/he's still reactive & is now deeply suspicious & frustrated, to boot. If s/he's ever off-leash when one of these dogs comes along, it's unlikely to just be 'bark & lunge', after weeks or months of punitive associations.
S/he'll act on the illogical belief that the dog was one of those who hurt & frustrated them.
So i wouldn't rely on dogs to "think it thru" logically.


Plus, as U said above, his response is rooted in fear - which is an emotion, not a concept or thought.
U cannot scold anyone out of being fearful - it's not only pointless to try, it damages relationships. U also cannot REASON someone out of being afraid - if that were possible, all the ppl who are terrified of airplanes could be convinced by the statistics, which undeniably prove that air travel is far, far safer than auto travel.
If fears were reasonable, we'd all be terrified of driving to & from work, or picking up the kids from school - because that's when U're literally most-likely to be maimed or killed, not when U're at 30K feet.

Emotions are not logic, & cannot be influenced by logic. Emotions are feelings, & must be addressed as such. :shrug:
Reducing his exposure to the window by putting up static-cling window panels that allow light in, but block the view from dog-height, would be much more effective than "scolding".

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Window-T...1z139wa?NCNI-5

White parchment paper with double-sided tape would also work, but it's a pain to fiddle with, & the dog can more-easily rip it down, if they can access the window.

Limiting the dog's time in that room to those times when U're also in it, & pairing EVERY passerby with a teaspoon of plain nonfat Greek yogurt, would very quickly reduce his reactivity, and alter his feelings about pedestrians & passing dogs.
Personally, I'd do both - I'd make it impossible for him to TOUCH the windows or stand on the sill, I'd block his view when he's in the room solo, & when i'm in the room, I'd pair every passerby, with or w/o a dog, with a tasty but small tidbit.

to keep him away from the windows, U could install a tether [which would also get him out of the crate, but protect the cats], or use ex-pens across the windows.

- terry

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Old 01-30-2018, 12:43 PM
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You were asking about a stop barking command.

when I am home, I usually leave the back door open so my dog can go in and out to the fenced backyard. He will bark at other dogs in the neighborhood. I tell him shhh with my finger to my lips. It works most of the time. If not, I call him to come inside.

He is still learning and if he is involved with a dog at the fence, I don't have much luck.

People here have said if you teach a dog to speak first it helps them learn a cue to stop. We have not done that, yet.
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Old 01-30-2018, 01:39 PM
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I tell my dog to leave it and call him over if he's barking at strangers outside the fence at the park at night. He does.
If he overreacts and barks at someone randomly walking by the car who's not an actual threat I say no barking bad! And have him lie down. That stops it too. If he barks at someone or something by the apartment and it goes on too long, I either say enough and that works or I can him to me and distract him by talking to him about he ready protected the house and scared away the Intruders. That also works.
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Old 01-30-2018, 03:10 PM
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Because I have the same issue, I was wondering, if you give your dog a treat when they notice someone walking by or start barking at someone will they not start to associate barking at someone as the way they get a treat?
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescuedpup View Post

...I have the same issue.
I wonder, if you give your dog a treat when they notice someone walking by or start barking at someone,
will they not start to associate barking at someone as the way they get a treat?
.

Where would U suggest we begin changing the dog's emotional response to a stranger?
That's not a smart-a$$ Q, i'm asking U to think about it. What would U do to change the FEELINGS of that dog?


Whatever that emotion is - anxiety, anger, fear, excitement, what it is doesn't matter - currently, it results in BARKING, & for whatever reason [again, why doesn't matter] the owner doesn't want the dog to bark, under those circumstances... whatever they are.
The circs might be when out in public on leash, or at the vet's office when the tech comes to take the leash & lead the dog to the treatment room, or maybe at home *after* the visitor is welcomed into the house by the owner.
Whatever the situation, the barking is either excessive or inapropos - & the owner wants it to stop.

The easiest way to STOP the barking is to alter the emotion, at the root of the barking.
Change the feelings that give rise to the response, & the outward manifestation of that emotion will cease.

So the new pattern for the owner - or the trainer, handler, or whoever is holding the leash, ATM - is to PAIR the sight or sound of any stranger with small tidbits of food. As long as a stranger is visibly present, or audible to the dog [from the dog's manner, as the handler will long-since be unable to hear the stranger], food is on offer.
When there is no stranger to be seen or even heard in the near-distance, poof! - the food's gone.

Eating - even smelling food, if the dog is too overaroused to eat it - releases endorphins, which are calming.
Sniffing itself, as an activity, is calming to dogs; anxious dogs will often self-soothe by sniffing around.
So we're helping the dog learn a new response: sight or sound of a stranger in these circs is less arousing.

How far we need to take this depends on what the owner wants the dog to do - tolerate the stranger, but ignore them?
Allow handling by the stranger? - perhaps the vet, or a groomer, or an acupuncturist for joint-pain...
Be friendly to the stranger? - visitors to the house might like to pet the dog, not just be in the same room.
So the counter-conditioning process goes on as long as is needed, to reach that goal.

During the B-mod protocol, everyone must do their best to *avoid* flooding the dog: keep exposure under threshold.
If the handler gets too close, & the dog begins to bark, do a previously-practiced emergency-U-turn, & get outta there.
If a stranger emerges just in front of U as U walk the dog, from a hidden doorway or between parked cars, U-turn!
Stuff happens; the world & everything in it, isn't in our control. We just deal with the situation at hand, as best we can.

Over time, the dog relaxes; barking is both less frequent & less intense; it stops sooner than it once did.
Strangers - at least, in the specific circs of the B-Mod process - are now a reason for happy anticipation.
Instead of barking, the dog is alert but relaxed; s/he looks from stranger to handler, anticipating a tidbit. Bingo!
Now, we can reduce the distance between the dog & strangers, in this setting... & so on.

So - to answer Ur Q - no, the dog doesn't think "barking gets treats".
BECAUSE... we don't give the dog treats every time they bark. We give treats only when strangers are present,
& only in those circs where barking is unwanted.
// There may be times & places when 'bark at strangers' is wanted.
We aren't messing with those - only those situations where barking is undesirable, persistent, or inapropos.

Ppl often think B-mod is "training". It's not.
Training is the process of teaching a behavior, or a chain of behaviors, to be performed on cue.
B-Mod is the systematic alteration of an emotional response, in order to change the behavior manifested.
Reduced to its essence, Skinner is training; Pavlov is association, & B-Mod is pure Pavlov.

Pavlov is a Russian medical researcher, a physiologist studying digestion; in the 1890s, he observed that the dogs in his lab salivated at sounds which they'd learned predicted meat-powder would be blown into their mouths, even when no meat-powder was forthcoming; they even drooled at the sight of ppl in white lab-coats... which all the technicians, who delivered the meat-powder, wore - to protect their clothing.
This detoured his research from physiology to psychology, & he spent the next 3 decades, discovering how best to create & extinguish conditioned reflexes.
But he wasn't a behaviorist - for him, learning how the brain worked was his religion. Behaviorists viewed it as an inviolable black-box, forever unknowable. Pavlov saw the brain as unexplored terrain.

for more on Pavlov:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/drool

Side-note:
If i had a very friendly dog, trusting & sociable, & i wanted to make that dog suspicious of strangers & unfriendly, B-Mod can do that, too.
But most ppl want their dog to be less reactive - not more.

- terry

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Old 01-31-2018, 01:58 PM
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When my dog is out in public with me and on a leash I want him to be friendly so he won't be banned from public places. So I used treats and praise to train him not to bark. If he did bark at a friendly stranger I would pull him closer make him sit or lie down and say bad no barking!
That's me, never hurt him, not traumatized and he doesn't always listen.

If he barks loose at dog park at night in iffy neighborhood, at my house or car or walking alone to protect us, good boy!!!

If it's excessive I say enough or leave it, call him and he gets treats. But I like a large protective dog in the city.
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