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So angry right now. other dog walkers instigating and blaming me

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Old 01-17-2018, 07:33 AM
  #21
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I wish they padded more harnesses, very good points. The only padded harness I can find my dog took off in about two seconds the first time I used it. He doesn't do that anymore but it does absolutely nothing for pulling.
So if he sees a rabbit and it's snowing like today I have no control unless by voice and treats. And he's very short furred and never sheds so if he wears his good harness too long he gets sores in his armpit area. He can't wear it all day long.
Hates and freaks out from any kind of head collar and gentle lead and since he's twenty five percent boxer I don't want to risk his breathing.
People say prongs are so bad but he's perfect in those, mine is plastic tipped and never left a mark but he's traumatized from gentle leads and gets awful bloody sores from harnesses and looks like an abuse case. If I leave it on in a field or dog park he won't run or play or move because it hurts. So what's really cruel? Something that I never jerk or use sharply but have just as an emergency brake and he's never known pain from? Or something that gives him bloody sores or he hates or can take off and get loose and killed from???
He wears a martingale collar but has windpipe damage from the pound and last homes so I was clearly told when I adopted him never to walk him just by a collar. I personally don't like leading any animal just by it's throat and neck and prefer a harness, just one that doesn't make him bleed. I only clip the leash to the harness and martingale collar as a backup in a high intensity situation where I'm very concerned about escape, rarely anymore. Honestly I never use the prong either except recently when I fell and hurt my wrist and it hurt so much and he was hyper from not enough exercise that I had no safe way to get him to the car to get to the park in the slippery snow and didn't want to risk my bad knee and need another surgery trying to walk him with only one good arm and one good leg in snow and ice.
I i learned from handling horses it's very dangerous to wrap a leash around your hand or wrist. If a strong animal pulls they can permanently damage the nerves or even cause loss of fingers or the hand.

Sometimes some people just spout off pontifications that have no actual practical reality about safety or usefulness lol.
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Old 01-17-2018, 10:07 AM
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Talking grins & giggles

.

well, then, i'm certainly glad that i'm pontificating in the padded-room of Dog Forum, where no one is fool enuf to listen.
I'll go draw some pichers now of mummy & daddy with my minder... ta!

- terry

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Old 01-17-2018, 01:21 PM
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I can sympathize. It seems like the general assumption is that if you have a dog on a leash you must want your dog to meet every dog you encounter. I call it the "dog park" mentality. If you are at a dog park, it is perfectly valid for others to assume it is OK for their dog to approach yours. That's why you're there, right?

But, some people just walk around with this mindset all of the time. They want their dog to meet other dogs, so they assume you do too. I can't tell you the number of times I have deliberately steered well clear of a dog, only to have its owner practically chase me down. And, they're always on a retractable leash so there is virtually no escaping them.

I get this with humans too. People just see a cute, friendly-looking dog and they think it is OK to just walk up and start petting him. Also, whistling, kissy noises, etc. Drives me nuts.

What's worse, is with my service dog in her vest, it wasn't much better. I would get people walking up with their dogs, and then asking, "Is it OK to say, 'Hi'?" Or, just petting her then asking the same thing. It's like, yes, it's OK. Just push aside the big patch that says, "Do not pet".
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:06 PM
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Petsmart carries a nice harness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowmom View Post
I wish they padded more harnesses, very good points. The only padded harness I can find my dog took off in about two seconds the first time I used it. He doesn't do that anymore but it does absolutely nothing for pulling.
So if he sees a rabbit and it's snowing like today I have no control unless by voice and treats. And he's very short furred and never sheds so if he wears his good harness too long he gets sores in his armpit area. He can't wear it all day long.
Hates and freaks out from any kind of head collar and gentle lead and since he's twenty five percent boxer I don't want to risk his breathing.
People say prongs are so bad but he's perfect in those, mine is plastic tipped and never left a mark but he's traumatized from gentle leads and gets awful bloody sores from harnesses and looks like an abuse case. If I leave it on in a field or dog park he won't run or play or move because it hurts. So what's really cruel? Something that I never jerk or use sharply but have just as an emergency brake and he's never known pain from? Or something that gives him bloody sores or he hates or can take off and get loose and killed from???
He wears a martingale collar but has windpipe damage from the pound and last homes so I was clearly told when I adopted him never to walk him just by a collar. I personally don't like leading any animal just by it's throat and neck and prefer a harness, just one that doesn't make him bleed. I only clip the leash to the harness and martingale collar as a backup in a high intensity situation where I'm very concerned about escape, rarely anymore. Honestly I never use the prong either except recently when I fell and hurt my wrist and it hurt so much and he was hyper from not enough exercise that I had no safe way to get him to the car to get to the park in the slippery snow and didn't want to risk my bad knee and need another surgery trying to walk him with only one good arm and one good leg in snow and ice.
I i learned from handling horses it's very dangerous to wrap a leash around your hand or wrist. If a strong animal pulls they can permanently damage the nerves or even cause loss of fingers or the hand.

Sometimes some people just spout off pontifications that have no actual practical reality about safety or usefulness lol.
Petsmart carries a nice padded harness, if your dog fits it. It's main downfall is that it's a shaped step-in harness, and comes small medium and large, so not much room for adjustment...but if it fits, it's very comfortable and doesnt rub. I walked Shamas around for 1/2 hour in-store before buying it just to be sure that it fits well both across the chest and under the pits. Until I found this I was considering ordering online to get the harness that you buy in three pieces, fitted to your size(can't recall the name right now)

I use a combination approach. Matingale and harness. This lets me lead him when needed, but if he's going to be pulling, he puts the pressure on his chest, not his neck. I have a double-ended lead, of the kind used to hold two dogs, and I use this to attach both the harness and collar for the walk.

I hear the bad about the prong but i believe that it's very dependent on the walker. Properly used, it's very useful, and does not need to hurt. My dad's trainer swears byt them and I have used them myself. I don't need it now, but I don't rule it out as a tool in the future.

Last edited by sassymomma; 01-17-2018 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:24 PM
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Talking Training with a remote control? // Oh, U mean an Aibo!...

.

I won't use a prong-collar - any more than water-balloons, choke-chains, air-horns, shock-collars, or "pin the dog".
There are so many alternatives that provide excellent control without any discomfort whatever, anything from a simple front-clip Y-harness to a pre-conditioned headcollar, & i would not risk the bad associations of "Prick!" / dog present, "Prick!" / human present, or any other pairing of nasty stimulus / coincident fact.

Dogs are very context-sensitive, & any inadvertent bad experience can taint something - WHAT was tainted, we won't even know until future circs reveal it. Superstitious beliefs are a pain in the butt when U try to remove them, root, branch, & shoot - i'd rather not plant the seed.

Besides, post facto repair jobs aren't the way i want to train; i much prefer proactive to reactive.

Since i do B-Mod rather than train / teach cued behaviors, the dogs i work with have more than enuf issues, thanks muchly - the last thing they need is another provoking experience, whether it's from a prong collar, a trainer demanding "obedience", or anything or anyone else. // They need a break from bad experiences; a period of clear straightforward communication, where they can't screw up, & nobody sets them up to fail, then punishes their failure.
They are set up for success, rewarded when they succeed, & any failures are mine - or their handler's.

If i genuinely needed a prong to communicate with any dog, after more than 35-years of handling dogs, i shouldn't be working with dogs - IMO.
Maybe i'd stick to training Aibos & re-selling them, ready to go, with an assortment of predetermined tricks & cued behaviors. Nobody gets hurt when U train an Aibo - & did U notice, they don't enclose a shock-collar, prong, or infinite-slip collar?
What do the Aibo manufacturers know, that we don't?

- terry

.
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassymomma View Post
I hear the bad about the prong but i believe that it's very dependent on the walker. Properly used, it's very useful, and does not need to hurt.
The very nature of its use (to cause aversion of a given behavior) dictates that it must- in order to work- be uncomfortable or painful. If it wasn't unpleasant, it wouldn't be an effective tool for this purpose.

I'm mostly indifferent to prong collars, have used in the past, don't care if others use them; but don't currently use them (still have them somewhere, but couldn't say where offhand because it's been that long) and feel that they tend to create increased reactivity in dogs, particularly if said dog is already a reactive type. This can create a slippery slope, particularly with stoic, pain tolerant dogs IME because the level of correction needed to shut down these dogs responses rather than ramp them up further can be quite severe, sometimes crossing into gray areas that might be considered abuse. I also own and have used an e-collar; halti; front clip and "standard" harness; martingale, slip, and flat collars; so I can understand the appreciation of "gadgets" to attempt to expedite training and manage undesirable behaviors until training has taken place, even though I'm not currently using them.

Regarding the original topic, I find that stepping between my dog and an approaching dog, and telling my dog- loudly enough that the approaching owner/dog can hear- "leave it", tends to make owners who are even slightly attentive/conscientious at least ask if their dog can meet, or try to sway me into allowing their dog to meet ("Oh, he's friendly!"), which gives me the opportunity to thwart them. Failing that, I'll heel (or would distract with steady feed of treats if needed) my dog away- across the street or in the opposite direction before the dog got close enough to be an issue. Nothing says "don't want to meet" like walking away . Luckily my current dog is ok briefly meeting most neutral or friendly dogs, and is small enough to easily be picked up and defended from hostile ones, but when I don't feel like dealing with it, I still use those methods to avoid meetings.

ETA: My dog wasn't a good fit for the Easywalk harness (deep chest, big keel), but he has a Freedom No Pull harness which is a better fit, and has a soft lining on the strap that goes underneath. I've also had good success with using a front clip on a regular Y-front/roman harness- many now have that option, or you could get one like the Urban Trail harness from Alpine that is custom made, padded, and has a front clip option

Last edited by busannie; 01-17-2018 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 01-18-2018, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leashedForLife View Post
.

I won't use a prong-collar - any more than water-balloons, choke-chains, air-horns, shock-collars, or "pin the dog".
There are so many alternatives that provide excellent control without any discomfort whatever, anything from a simple front-clip Y-harness to a pre-conditioned headcollar, & i would not risk the bad associations of "Prick!" / dog present, "Prick!" / human present, or any other pairing of nasty stimulus / coincident fact.

Dogs are very context-sensitive, & any inadvertent bad experience can taint something - WHAT was tainted, we won't even know until future circs reveal it. Superstitious beliefs are a pain in the butt when U try to remove them, root, branch, & shoot - i'd rather not plant the seed.

Besides, post facto repair jobs aren't the way i want to train; i much prefer proactive to reactive.

Since i do B-Mod rather than train / teach cued behaviors, the dogs i work with have more than enuf issues, thanks muchly - the last thing they need is another provoking experience, whether it's from a prong collar, a trainer demanding "obedience", or anything or anyone else. // They need a break from bad experiences; a period of clear straightforward communication, where they can't screw up, & nobody sets them up to fail, then punishes their failure.
They are set up for success, rewarded when they succeed, & any failures are mine - or their handler's.

If i genuinely needed a prong to communicate with any dog, after more than 35-years of handling dogs, i shouldn't be working with dogs - IMO.
Maybe i'd stick to training Aibos & re-selling them, ready to go, with an assortment of predetermined tricks & cued behaviors. Nobody gets hurt when U train an Aibo - & did U notice, they don't enclose a shock-collar, prong, or infinite-slip collar?
What do the Aibo manufacturers know, that we don't?

- terry

.
@leashed for life, I'd absolutely LOVE to take Chance off of the prong. If you can advise on how to work him so that he no longer needs it, I'm quite open to suggestions. It was a first step in training as I did not know much about training at the time that I started walking him, and the owner is not strong enough to handle him. And my dad's trainers all swear by it. The other walker is quite willing to work along my plans, so I believe that instructions left with him could be followed while he learns. I'm still learning myself, and am very open to suggestion to make life better for the dogs that I walk, whether my own or others.

Oh whoops! I'm on the wrong thread. This one has changed subjects a little lol!

Last edited by sassymomma; 01-18-2018 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:42 AM
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Update:

Well, I'm literally limited to my own block of my own street now. Shamas won't go the one way, because it leads to one main road. He won't go straight down the street because of the other main road. He won't turn left at the end of my block because of the school, and he now won't go right because of the woman who screamed at us. We went just far enough for him to see where it happened, and he turned tail and dragged me home.

I had been avoiding walking past Chance's house because he's super-territorial, and goes ballistic at the window if he sees me walking another dog...but it seems that's literally the only option that I have left if I want to walk Shamas more than 8 houses without driving out of the area.......walking past Chances house
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:55 AM
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@sassymomma - Is the owner home when you walk by with Shamas? That would be a great way for her to work with his over-reaction to when people/dogs walk by his house.
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Old 01-18-2018, 12:13 PM
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Question Remove Chance from the window area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassymomma View Post
Update:

...
I [avoid] walking past Chance's house, because he... goes ballistic at the window if he sees me walking another dog... but it seems that's literally the only option left, if I want to walk Shamas more than 8 houses without driving out of the area...
.
Quote:
originally posted by Shandula

Is the owner home when you walk by with Shamas?
That would be a great way for her to work with his over-reaction when people/ dogs walk by his house.
.

or - encourage her to MANAGE THE ISSUE so that Chance has setback from the window -
letting him get enraged over & over & over &... will only make it worse.

he could be:
- in another room, with a closed door between him & street sounds.
- behind "acid-etched" self-cling window-panels used for privacy in bathrooms, etc; no glue, no adhesive left behind.
- tethered or gated out of that room, or simply away from the window.

I don't know the layout of the owner's home, but there should be a way to prevent him "owning" the entire street.
Maybe the 2 of U can think of a way to prevent exposing him to passing k9s & humans, until it can be worked on - every exposure only digs the rut deeper.

- terry

.
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