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Possessive Australian cattle dog puppy

This is a discussion on Possessive Australian cattle dog puppy within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; Originally Posted by leashedForLife Make life easy - go hands-free by installing a tether, & clipping her to it. Tethered to Success | Kerry Blue ...

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Old 08-11-2017, 02:54 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by leashedForLife View Post
Make life easy - go hands-free by installing a tether, & clipping her to it.

Tethered to Success | Kerry Blue Terrier Foundation

Screw an eyebolt into the baseboard in an area where the dog isn't beside a traffic path [no jumping on or body-blocking passersby] & where she can't reach a bookshelf to create chewtoys or tzatckes to knock them over.

Have a helpful person @ the local Home Depot make up a length of bike-cable, 15 to 18-inch long including the spring-clips - B sure the clips have swivels! No swivels on the clips? - Clamp the swivels on the cable, use double-ended spring clips at both ends, & shorten the cable so it's still a total of 18 to 20" long max, including all hardware.

Take the new cable home, clip one end on the eyebolt & the free end to the dog's buckle-collar or the chest of a Y-harness. [NOT the over-the-spine D-rings - she'd have a 4-ft reach with her forepaws, & it would greatly increase her leverage; dangerous combo.]
For me, that would be a lot more work and a lot less easy than simply clipping a leash that I have already to my dog's collar or harness that she's already wearing and holding the other end.

Plus it would limit only being able to work with the dog in one specific spot in the home rather than other areas of the house/yard or out in public places. But yes, it may be a good idea for folks that prefer to have two hands free and don't need to counter condition in a wide variety of areas.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:47 PM
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Talking ah-ha! - U didn't look at the article, didja?

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...
Plus it would limit [me -- I'd] only be able to work with the dog in one specific spot in the home, rather than other areas of the house/ yard, or out in public places.

...it may be a good idea for folks that prefer to have two hands free & don't need to counter-condition in a wide variety of areas.
actually, U can use the exact same tether as a portable, anywhere in the house where there's a *door* - take a 2-ft long hunk of 2x4, screw an eyebolt midway along it in the center of a 4-inch side, clip on the tether.

Choose a door that's in the room where U want to work - closet, exit / entry, whatever. Open the door, lay the 2x4 behind it, slip the tether under the door, close the door so it latches securely - & clip the free end to the dog's buckle-collar or the chest of a Y-harness.
Move the tether & the dog anywhere in the house that U go, if U just want to keep any eye on her / him, or to DS / CC anywhere. A bathmat or folded towel to lie on is equally portable.

For DS / CC outside the house, use a 4-ft tether of the same type - run it around a wooden or steel post, the leg of a metal bench that's bolted to the concrete, a smallish tree-trunk, ________ .
Clip the spring-clip AROUND the cable, to make a slip-loop on the secured end; clip the free end to the dog's buckle-collar or the chest of a Y-harness. Now start B-Mod, hands-free & secure in the knowledge that the dog won't bite thru the cable [as a certain Rott did my brand-new veg-tanned 6-ft harness leather braided-ends leash... 30-seconds alone, & she was running loose with the stub of my new leash hanging from her thick neck. ]

Lightweight, coils easily, it'll last 20 years or more. Shove it in a backpack & go anywhere.
- terry

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Old 08-11-2017, 07:56 PM
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Nope, I didn't read the article; just went by what you said, and I hold by my statement that I'd rather use a leash than a more complicated set up that risks damaging baseboards and doors and not having my dog under my control. That's my preference for me and my dog and not something I'm forcing on anyone or advocating as the best or only method, though. *shrug* There are plenty of options and the original poster and everyone else are free to do whatever works for them.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:54 PM
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Question Puzzled - how would it "damage" baseboards or doors?

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... I'd rather use a leash than a more complicated set up that risks damaging baseboards & doors and not having my dog under my control. ...

@AlwaysTomboy -
This is a brand-new allegation, LOL - nobody ever said a tether would "damage" the baseboard, & how the portable version might damage a door, i've no idea. Could U explain how a 2-ft long piece of 2x4 will damage a door, when lying on the floor behind it?

Meanwhile, i've used them myself, & my clients have used them, for several decades - no damage to anything, & good results.

I've never owned my own house; my parents owned our family farm, but i've been a rental tenant all my adult life. I simply fllled the small hole when i took out the eyebolt, & since the landlord repaints before the next tenant anyway, they paint over it. There has yet to be any issue raised by a landlord - mine, or my clients'.

I've helped clients install them, which is a simple process: make a pilot hole with any nail, seat the eyebolt in it, & screw it in, using a screwdriver thru the eye as a handle.
The hole left when the eyebolt is removed is approx 1/4-inch across, & easily filled. // Hanging a framed photo or a poster on the wall can arguably "do more damage" than a tether.

If U have antique doors with a fragile finish, i'd off-set the eyebolt to the side vs the center of the 4-inch side; lay the 2x4 so that the bolt goes beneath the door without touching it, & PAD the ends of the 2x4 - i'd probly wrap them with carpet scraps an inch to 1.5-inches thick, so that it stands off the door & only the carpet touches the door.
Problem prevented - & carpet ends can be had for free at many home-improvement / furnishings / carpeting stores, just ask.

Heck, U can probly get some carpeting to complement the decor - & U can always paint, stain, seal, or otherwise finish the exposed 2x4, it's sanded & finished lumber, not raw-cut; only the ENDS are not sanded. Finishing them smoothly would take a few minutes with a wood-file, followed by sandpaper. Easy-peasy.

Come to think of it, furniture-grade portable tethers might be a nifty project... I'll get on that, thanks, Tomboy!

- terry

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Old 08-12-2017, 02:13 PM
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Relax, man. This isn't a personal attack. I'm not making allegations or accusing you of saying something you didn't. I'm the one who mentioned damage because I see it as inevitable. If this set up works for you, it works. Rock on. The fact is that drilling a hole in a baseboard causes damage. It may be a minor and acceptable level of damage to you and your clients - shoot, it's probably an acceptable level of damage for me - but it's damage nonetheless. If a dog lunges while attached to a 2x4 on the other side of a door, the other side of the door will be damaged. It may just be scratched paint; it may just be a scuff or a dent, but it is damage. Preventing the damage takes additional work as you've explained. Repairing the damage afterwards takes additional work, as you've explained. Your definition of "easy peasy" is obviously not the same as mine.

I'd rather not divert too far from the original poster's topic so I'll leave it at that. Peace.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:29 PM
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Smile Oops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysTomboy View Post

... drilling a hole in a baseboard causes damage. ...
No drill, no drilling.
Small nail, pilot hole, set eyebolt on pilot hole, self-screwing - a screwdriver shaft thru the eye provides a handle, making it much easier to seat.
Skip the power tools.
Cheers,
- t

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Old 08-12-2017, 05:12 PM
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Please move on. The op can decide whether or not tethering is a feasible option or not. Also debating in advice threads typically isn't all that helpful to the op, so let's get back on track here. Thanks!
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Old 08-14-2017, 06:24 PM
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Today, my friend and I learned her aggression problem is broader than I thought. We were in the woods with her (we've taken her 5 or 6 times before, she's never had a problem) and my friend jumped off a fallen tree and Ava, who was sniffing around somewhere far off, ran over and nipped at her and started barking. She was not being possessive of anything, she was not being protective of me, and this wasn't "her territory." So I put her leash on and my friend started dancing around and doing weird stuff (because apparently that sets her off) and I was giving food every time she was looking at her.

Earlier, in the house, my friend was dancing around with her fingers (just after she'd handed her food) and Ava thought that was extremely weird and went off barking at her. I had her on the leash because we were in the house, but she didn't try to nip that time.

This is very discouraging. Especially because yesterday and the day before and the day before that we worked really hard on it and she was doing fantastic.

Anywho. We've signed up for obedience but it doesn't start for a while. Still on the search for a trainer to help us out. Do you think Click to Calm would help out this situation?
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:41 AM
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Today, my friend and I learned her aggression problem is broader than I thought. We were in the woods with her (we've taken her 5 or 6 times before, she's never had a problem) and my friend jumped off a fallen tree and Ava, who was sniffing around somewhere far off, ran over and nipped at her and started barking. She was not being possessive of anything, she was not being protective of me, and this wasn't "her territory." So I put her leash on and my friend started dancing around and doing weird stuff (because apparently that sets her off) and I was giving food every time she was looking at her.

Earlier, in the house, my friend was dancing around with her fingers (just after she'd handed her food) and Ava thought that was extremely weird and went off barking at her. I had her on the leash because we were in the house, but she didn't try to nip that time.

This is very discouraging. Especially because yesterday and the day before and the day before that we worked really hard on it and she was doing fantastic.

Anywho. We've signed up for obedience but it doesn't start for a while. Still on the search for a trainer to help us out. Do you think Click to Calm would help out this situation?
I am not at all an expert but that sounds to me like a combination of puppy excitability and drivey herding dog behavior. Nipping and barking, especially if she's not resource guarding, being protective or reacting in fear, and isn't giving off any other warning signals like growling or raising her hackles sounds like herding behavior. Being "set off" by high energy dancing and moving fingers sounds like puppy excitability and/or herding instincts. It's hard to say without actually seeing the behavior. Maybe your friend jumping off of a log got Ava's attention and she decided your friend needed to be "herded" somewhere else and put in her place, not in a discipline sense, but like a sheep who's strayed away from the flock.

That doesn't make her behavior acceptable. She still needs to learn not to bark at or nip people, but a different tactic might be needed if she's not reacting out of fear. If your friend jumping off of the log scared her and she responded to that by running over and barking and nipping as a warning to your friend, that's a little different and counter conditioning and desensitization may help in that case.

Maybe hop on youtube and look up videos of dogs herding and dogs that are reacting out of fear/aggression and compare. Ideally, though, a professional should evaluate.

Make sure she's getting lots of exercise, especially types that will channel her herding instincts into acceptable behaviors, and types that stimulate her mind and make her think. I've never had high drive herding dogs so hopefully someone else will chime in, but maybe you could teach her to chase a flirt pole on your command, with corresponding leave it/get it type commands to help teach her impulse control. In other words, she can chase and bark at and nip things, but only when you say it's okay.

Whether it's a herding instinct thing or a fear reaction aggression thing, basic obedience can only help, and there's plenty you can do before the class starts.

Sit, Stand & Down instruction vids for starters.
(Each video is only a minute or two long.)




Take it/Drop It/Thank You/Tug of War Demonstrations
(first one is ~1.5 minute, second one is ~3.5 minutes


And if you're going the clicker or mark and treat training route, here's a kikopup video on the 'drop it' command (7 minutes), which is all around useful and vital if you're going to play chase/tug/catch/fetch type games.


I don't want to inundate you with video links, but kikopup has some good videos to teach 'leave it', which is also super useful.

Once she knows 'leave it', you can use that command when she starts barking and nipping people to stop that behavior and then redirect her to a tug toy or a more acceptable behavior as a reward.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:52 AM
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Thumbs up Another vote for KikoPup!

anything from KikoPup is safe, humane, & doesn't recommend physical manipulation, aversive tools, or overfacing the dog.
Besides, Emily Larlham is a great teacher as well as a good trainer.

I'd be careful of crossing the line between B-Mod, which is brief SLOWLY intensified exposures to triggers, & flooding or teasing - which might be what Ur friend was doing, dancing around after the dog was leashed, post the nipping incident / jumping off the log.
U can't move from zero to 60, & that the dog is leashed & cannot grab clothes / nip etc, is not an excuse to put her over threshold; be very careful to keep any triggering behaviors under threshold, so that the dog is aware but able to control her own response.

I know U say she was "doing great", but humans are very prone to test to failure: when things are going well, keep raising the bar & keep challenging the dog.
Bad idea, & worse practice - always stop while yer ahead, B4 U are tempted to try "just one more time". U can always try again AT THE SAME level of distraction / provocation, an hour or more later or the next day. Progress needs to be made in small increments, not leaps, or it will not last, & U run the added risk of sensitizing the dog rather than DEsensitizing them, which is disastrous.

Another factor that helps enormously: have the dog literally "sleep on it" when gains are made.
Sleep is critical to memory, & taking a deliberate break from training or B-Mod overnight can help a dog more than all the drilling or DS/CC in the world - it's simple, safe, & takes no time at all on the trainer's part.
Especially when a dog has an insight, grasps a concept, begins to generalize [hard for dogs], or makes any breakthru, end with a fluent well-known behavior, reward, & QUIT for the day - entirely.
Work on other stuff - let that simmer quietly on the dog's mental back-burner, & don't return to it for 24 to 48-hours.

A total holiday for one to 2 days helps consolidate that new learning, making it retrievable from memory, & improving fluency with no added work.
In fact, "more work" can impede learning when there's been a breakthru. // Sleeping on new learning is why cramming for a test never results in as good learning as distributed study; often, the small amount U were able to retain long-enuf to take the exam evaporates in days, after all that intense short-term effort.

- terry
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