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My new dog hates men!

This is a discussion on My new dog hates men! within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; Originally Posted by DieselK Tried rewarding him with positive reinforcement with treats and even had my SIL feed him treats ... he took them well, ...

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Old 08-19-2017, 06:36 AM
  #21
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Unhappy I think this is past any chat-help we can offer.

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Originally Posted by DieselK View Post

Tried rewarding him with positive reinforcement with treats and even had my SIL feed him treats ... he took them well, and as soon as she walked away he lunged at her.
"lunged at her" how?

Without seeing it, that could mean lunging at the departing treats, chasing her playfully, lunging with an open mouth as if to bite - which would include OTHER BODY LANGUAGE such as hackles, ears flattened, lips lifted from teeth, a C-commissure, etc - or just hustling eagerly to follow along behind her as she leaves.

At this point, i's suggest U contact a credentialed, humane trainer; run like H*** from anyone who sounds like The Dawg Wrassler, or behaves like Brad Prattison of "end of my leash".
IAABC certified Canine Consultants are good, ditto CAABs [Applied Animal Behaviorists] - I think U need on-scene assistance, or remote help using video of the dog's behavior.

- terry

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Old 08-19-2017, 07:05 AM
  #22
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You might want to invest in a couple of nest cams, and have them set up in the rooms where the dog is interacting with people. Then, find a reputable CAAB behaviorist or trainer who can observe the dog, and look at the recorded videos for clues on what is triggering the behavior.
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Old 08-19-2017, 09:35 AM
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Your new dog needs some serious restructuring and introduction to his new environment and humans. I'd put the dog through a period of social isolation and "reset" this dog's entire perception through indifference on your behalf. In a nutshell, the dog must learn he has to earn your respect. The basics are all that should be provided during this isolation period and the dog is always leashed and beside you when it is not put away in his specific area. Your dog has absolutely no reason to change his old ways unless you start from square one and create an environment where the dog learns to rely on you. Once you have accomplished this, you can move on to all the other training as well as deal with the dog's predispositions/temperament issues but you have to create a solid foundation first or you will be fighting a much harder battle than need be.
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:54 AM
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Talking Are U channeling?...

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Originally Posted by DriveDog View Post

Your new dog needs some serious restructuring and introduction to his new environment and humans. I'd put the dog through a period of social isolation and "reset" this dog's entire perception through indifference on your behalf. In a nutshell, the dog must learn he has to earn your respect.
This sounds like CM/DW, but edited - the verbal packaging is different, but the underlying message is the same: that the dog "doesn't respect" the owner / humans in general / men / children / boys / seniors / girls / folks with golf clubs / ppl in mirrored mantis-eye sunglasses, whatever triggering subset of humans.

I don't think 'respect' is a factor in dog / human relations on the dog's side; I do think we humans need to respect dogs as dogs, not 4-legged humans, but for dogs, the key to a successful relationship with humans is trust.
Whether this GSD had bad experiences with humans in the past is immaterial; whether he was born timid could complicate things, but we can't interview him to ask.
We need to make his current & future experiences with humans, happy & predictable - so he can relax & interact without worry or becoming defensive.

I don't think social isolation would help, it would just increase his stress.

He already "relies on ppl"; if anything, he sounds like the prototype of a slightly-neurotic overattached GSD who won't let U use the toilet alone, & whines or lurks or scratches at the bathroom door if U close it, to take a shower. He wants U in sight, 24/7. // I'd say that's anxiety, not "disrespect".

And at this point, i think an on-scene pro with credentials is needed, for a solid behavioral evaluation & a written protocol on how to address his unwanted behavior.
If the owner is in a rural area or a credentialed behaviorist is far distant, many do remote consults using video, with the local vet doing the hands-on & checking on any physical / medical issues.
A psychoactive prescription may help, too - he might need an SSRI or other meds, which requires vet Dx & Rx. // Just be aware that Acepromazine / "Ace" can lower a dog's THRESHOLD * FOR * BITING, & is not a good idea for anxious dogs.
On Ace, dogs may bite in circs where they wouldn't B4, or bite with less inhibition, causing worse injury.

- terry


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Old 08-19-2017, 12:36 PM
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LFL,

There are just so many of your "thoughts" in your critique of my post that are so far from the mark and miss my original intent. For instance, "that the dog "doesn't respect" the owner / humans in general / men / children / boys / seniors / girls / folks with golf clubs / ppl in mirrored mantis-eye sunglasses, whatever triggering subset of humans." I truly only care that my GSDs over the decades have "respected" me as everyone and everything else is secondary and the dog will follow my lead and treat all the rest of the world accordingly because the dog trusts me and most importantly has found a place/position where the dog has little if any pressure on it as there is no void in the relationship hence the dog need not try and fill that void, it creates synergy as in a working team. Most of this would never be accomplished if the dog and I didn't have a solid foundation. You want to treat symptoms rather than the core problem. Example, you actually suggested giving the dog psychoactive meds, for shame! I'm sure meds have their place in certain instances but most definitely not out of the chute as in this particular scenario.

For the record, let's substitute " the dog is willing and strongly desires to follow my guidance" for the word "respect" Once a dog looks to its handler and has the strong desire to please, so many problems just simply never take place and/or disappear. This is the "core" that needs to be created because ALL pressure is off the dog and the dog thrives as there is no doubt in the dog's mind regarding the relationship between dog and handler.

The window of opportunity to "reset" a dog which has been taken in such as a 2 year old rescue is an opportunity which should be taken advantage of immediately because once the dog defaults to its previous undesirable behaviors, the task at hand has become significantly more difficult.

I understand we disagree on methods and protocols but it is not the dog which has changed over time it is the human who has changed and I am firmly convinced there are more "problem" dogs than ever in this country. It should make you wonder.
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Old 08-19-2017, 02:00 PM
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Smile Not really.

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Originally Posted by DriveDog View Post
LFL,

[SIZE=3][SIZE=2]

... Example, you actually suggested giving the dog psychoactive meds, for shame!
I'm sure meds have their place in certain instances, but most definitely not out of the chute, as in this particular scenario.
Correction:
i said the dog "might NEED" psychoactive meds - which is very different from 'suggesting' them. // Only a vet can make that determination, & i'm not one.
That i was a pre-vet undergrad with a dual major, LOL, gets me no points.

Also, it wasn't "out of the chute" / an immediate suggestion.
We began this thread with the OP thinking her adoptee was only reactive to / fearful of men, a very well-defined, clear trigger.
After just 2 days, he's not only reacting to "men" - none live in the house, at the moment - but also to the SiL, who went to the shelter when he was adopted, & whom he's been tagging around the house without issue, ever since.

Our "clear trigger" is no longer clear; one of the 2 ppl living in the house, the SiL, is now someone that the dog lunges at? / reacts to? / barks at?, etc. This is no longer a simple DS/CC process, which any pet-owner is capable of doing with simple instructions & patience - IME, as i've coached many clients thru DeSensitize / Counter-Condition, over the past 35-plus years.
Without seeing the dog, we can't adequately understand exactly what he's doing when he reacts, his overall body-language, his intentions / emotional state, & so on, & thus we can't - IMO & IME - give accurate, helpful suggestions.

It's time for a professional on scene - again, IME & IMO. Yer mileage, as always, may vary.
- terry


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Old 08-19-2017, 02:25 PM
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Exclamation Error!

my mistake! - I left out a key detail.

He HAD * BEEN "tagging the SiL around the house without issue..." - he's now jumpy / twitchy / unpredictable / reactive, whatever, around her - & she lives in the house.
So his previous calm & friendly response to her, has changed.

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Old 08-19-2017, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by leashedForLife View Post

So his previous calm & friendly response to her, has changed.

Yes, the advantages of having the dog being off-balance due to the recent changes in its environment has most likely passed and the dog is reverting back to what he knows best and served him appropriately, ( the dog is filling the void because there is no alternative structure being presented ) tis why the "reset" is so important with older dogs being rehomed especially when one has no idea what baggage comes with the dog.
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Old 08-19-2017, 03:44 PM
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Sorry, DD -
we'll just agree to disagree; i've never yet seen any dog 'improve' after being abruptly isolated & left without social stimulation & other alternative stimulation for [insert specified time period here].

I've never seen it suggested in the many books i've read on behavior & modification thereof, in dogs; that includes the 3-volume 'Handbooks' texts, which is a complete misnomer, each of those books is a tome that looks like an old-fashioned monster dictionary.

I've never heard it suggested in the many workshops & conferences i've attended; McConnell, Davidson, O'Heare, Dodman, Overall... nobody has ever said, "sequester the dog, & give her / him nothing but food, water, & potty trips for X days" to supposedly improve their attitude toward humans.

Meanwhile, i'd still say consult a credentialed behaviorist - IAABC, CAAB, or vet behaviorist, local or remote.

- terry

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Old 08-19-2017, 07:41 PM
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i've never yet seen any dog 'improve' after being abruptly isolated & left without social stimulation & other alternative stimulation for [insert specified time period here].

I've never seen it suggested in the many books i've read on behavior & modification thereof, in dogs;

I've never heard it suggested in the many workshops & conferences i've attended;

Of course you haven't because that is not the protocol. Once again you assume incorrectly about this period of resetting. The "abruptness" you suggest already was taking place before most people take in a rescued dog as the dog has had its routine and SOP greatly altered. The "social isolation" you are so opposed to entails that the dog and handler spend very much time together but the time spent together is both with the dog leashed and/or tethered to the handler and the interaction is indifferent or "aloof" similar to what GSDs are noted for, this period doesn't exclude walks, exploring the dog's new territory or many other forms of interaction but the dog follows me and soon learns the fairness of his new human but in the aura of the indifference the handler maintains. I have said this many times before and will offer it again, I, the steward of this animal, have ownership of everything in the dog's life and because I am a fair human, the dog benefits from all I own, there is no resource guarding, there is no anxiety, there is no unwarranted aggression, there is no form of the dog manipulating me because the dog has willingly accepted relying upon me to guide it brightly and most importantly we are team with mutual respect for each other but it all has to start somewhere. The "somewhere" is the dog understanding how we will live together and that will always be on the human's terms not the dogs and that as you well know is the core problem for all too many people and their dogs. I suppose to many, the notion of the human calling all the shots might sound heavy-handed to them but with intelligent and formidable breeds like a GSD, many are trained by their dog and/or intimidated by them. The most wonderful thing about instilling this core principle in the dog is, the dog wants it, the dog so wants it because the dog does not have to take a leadership role it most likely isn't capable of for proper civil behavior between human and dog. The old adage regarding a dog's predilection of either leading or being led has truth to it and I promise you most every dog will try and lead in the absence of a sagacious entity in its life.

In spite of our differences, we do agree that the benefits provided by qualified trainers is a good way to go for many and the emphasis is on "qualified".
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