My dog is a traitor

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My dog is a traitor

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Old 12-18-2017, 07:44 PM
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My dog is a traitor

I read in a few different places that a supposedly foolproof way to get a dog to come back to you if they're a runaway or don't have the best recall is to drop or fall on the ground and the dog is always supposed to come check on you.
I actually didn't test this out deliberately but accidentally. I was walking in a hurry yesterday with my dog on the leash. My favorite comfortable shoes are also a bit too big and I didn't see a big cracked uneven part of the sidewalk so tripped and went flying. Landed hard on the concrete and got a nasty bloody raw mark on my bad knee of course and minir cuts and scrapes on my other knee and hands. Also twisted my wrist pretty good, I'm thinking the stupid dog pulled on the leash at the wrong moment as I landed.
Instead of coming over to check on me or even look over he pulled the leash free before I got up and went off to meet a couple down the street and didn't come back when I called. I did socialize him to be friendly to strangers instead of afraid since he used to bark and growl and lunge at strange men, or people with hats, but he's supposed to have some loyalty.

He's also now whining and clingy and showing separation anxiety for a friend of mine who occasionally comes over and who likes to take him for walks. Only this person doesn't listen to me and runs with him so has no control of this dog and the dog does what he wants and doesn't obey him and has knocked him down several times on their runs and walks. I have a bad knee so can't run at all but don't let him drag me around everywhere. So whenever he sees this person in public now he starts whining non-stop and jumping on him and yanking on the leash to go with him. If I leave him with the friend and disappear from sight then he whines for me.
It's irritating to have him doing the separation anxiety stuff and obnoxiously whining and trying to drag me around to get to a person who's never lived in the same place and has never been a huge regular part of his life.
My cats are much more loyal than this dog. So are my horses and my past dogs.
In many ways we've made a lot of progress in training and overall manners but this kind of stuff takes away a lot from the cute endearing moments.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:21 PM
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Your title made me crack up. I've never heard that claim before but, as you pointed out, it is not true.

My service dog was extremely well-trained to stay with me while I was on the ground (from a seizure). One day, she was forcibly removed from the room by a police officer while I was unconscious. The experience was so traumatic for her, from that day on, she would try to run and hide while I was having a seizure. It look almost two years to completely undo that damage.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:56 AM
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I used to be all caught up in that 'dogs are loyal' thing until I let my husband walk and feed MY dog (we had two) and watched her become HIS dog. It just made so much sense it didn't bother me.
My then fav cat was truly loyal. He didn't care who fed him & cleaned his litterbox, he wanted Me, Me, Me. Good for the ego, but not necessary.
Your dog loves being 'spoiled' by your active & carefree friend--that's understandable from your dog's point of view and nothing personal.
I once wiped out on a ski hill (x-country, so I was by myself) and completely stuck in the deep snow (I could not move) and my dogs were just, like, oh, why did we stop, oh, cool, rabbit tracks, etc. Expect dogs to be dogs, real dogs, not cartoon dogs, not facebook viral video dogs, just dogs, adult animals with wants and needs and thoughts of your own and you won't be so dissappointed.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:14 AM
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Then why is it so widely posted in recall training that if you drop down to the ground even difficult to catch dogs will come back to check on you?
And I've had many cats, most of them were friendly to everyone but very clearly my cats when it came to where they slept or who was able to cut their nails or medicate them if they were sick. I never tried to train this they just trusted me as the one who fed and cared for them. My previous dogs also were more devoted on terms of good recall and not taking off, again not something I ever trained, just never issues.
It's a pretty basic expectation that many people have, if you get a dog it's going to be loyal enough to want to stick around you. When I fell there weren't any high value distractions like rabbits or other dogs around, just a couple of people standing. I understand him liking going on walks and runs with the friend who physically can run and let's him pull like a freight train, but nobody was there then.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:26 AM
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I don't know. I actually never read that anywhere else. If I fall down, it's just meh, let's go, are we going? But I just expect my dogs to be wanting whatever they want, much like cats.

All dogs are different, though, individuals. Mine (current) grew up as a free ranging pet, so he's perfectly happy running off out of sight, it doesn't mean he loves me less, it just means he knows where to find me when he wants me (I don't give him opportunities, but I did by accident once or thrice in the past).
If it makes you feel any better, my dog leaped off toward the street while in harness and attached to a long line (which wrapped around my left hand). I still have damage from that (more than a year later), the tendons are permanently messed up. He neither knows nor cares, he's just a dog.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:12 PM
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That's awful, no it doesn't make me feel better to hear of anyone else's misfortune. I get your point that it shouldn't bother me but it does.
This dog is very sensitive and found cancer on my cat, both when it was first there and when it came back. He's sniffing and grooming my other cats, one has a benign tumor on an ear and the other has allergies and is scratching his skin raw. He goes up to strangers and immediately starts sniffing them anywhere they have any type of injury or infection. He could probably be some type of medical alert service dog if I wanted to train him to be.
So you'd think that when the person who feeds him and cares for him falls and is literally bleeding, he'd be curious about it. Especially when he has separation anxiety so bad he needs medication and behaviorist. He flips out if I leave him alone.
Yeah it bugs me. Maybe I'll take him off his meds and leave him alone at home all the time instead of taking him everywhere and spending my last dollar on doggy daycare. Maybe he's too spoiled.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:55 PM
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It is a frustrating thing, and it makes sense to feel betrayed when something like this happens.

My dog got off leash when he was a puppy and was running all around the neighborhood, I tried to catch him but couldn't so I tried falling down in the road. He came near me out of curiousity but was still jumping around happily, out of my reach, still totally happy in his freedom and not caring about my well being. A neighbor came outside with a treat and he ran to the neighbor, who finally caught him.

What helped me get over this aggravating experience is to realize that this experience was not representative of my dog's overall attitude towards me, and was not emblematic of his nature. The thing that happened did not define the dog, or his amount of caring towards me. In some moments it is quite evident that the dog loves me, and in many other moments the dog is busy caring about his own entertainment.

Though the dog evidently appreciates the friend who takes him running, the friend is just fulfilling one of the dog's many needs. As his owner you are the one who fulfills the other needs, and he still has those needs. Therefore, I wouldn't encourage you to let these negative experiences affect the amount of time, medication, finances, etc that you spend on the dog, and would instead encourage you to do what ever is in your and the dog's best interest.

(( shout-out to Cambridge -- my hometown !))
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:04 PM
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Thanks I still do what's in his best interest. His recall is pretty good at home and most of the time in the fenced dog park. Main exception is he has an obsession to meet and sniff every new dog coming in so rushed to the gate and won't leave until he sniffs the new dog. Then he comes back, but if I call him while the dog is coming in he ignores me.
Being a runaway and hard to catch are two of his defining qualities that I knew about him before I got him. Not his only qualities but two definite qualities. O just expected that after this amount of training, time and effort they'd be better resolved by now. There is a lot of progress, he's even better at the stable. But it's not 100 percent.
My cats and horses usually come to me when I call them. If the cats think there's a vet visit or medication about to happen they will hide but otherwise they usually come running if I call any of them.
My horses come over to me. If they've been cooped up and not turned out or exercised for too long they get frustrated and will escape and run around to have fun but will eventually let me catch them. And that's my fault for not exercising them enough.
My past dogs always came to me when called.
I'm just not used to it being such an issue for so long.
And his obsession with my friend is getting dangerous. Whenever we run into him, he now jumps on him, whines and just is clingy and annoying. When I try to leave, he starts pulling, leaping on his hind legs and physically dragging me to get to him if we're walking separately but in the same direction. At over 80 pounds and me now having a hurt wrist and bad knee already and now ice, snow and freezing rain everywhere he is not going to be dragging me around everywhere.

That's completely unacceptable and he knows it. He's usually pretty good on the leash unless a rabbit or creature appears. I know this is a positive only forum but treats and praise don't impress him when he gets this revved up and he knows the routine of when I take him out and anticipates when I get ready to leave and starts flipping out that he's not going to go for a walk/run with his buddy.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:24 AM
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My dog is a traitor

Sounds to me like a normal younger untrained dog
Just because he's trained pretty well to listen in the house doesn't mean he will listen on the street or in the back yard it takes lots of practice to teach him to be calm In all situations Work with him and the person he goes crazy when he sees to get him to be calm around him in different environments
And Some dogs just won't listen when they get away compared to other dogs
I had a Great Dane/lab mix that was the perfect dog she listened so well 99% of the time she was my heart dog I could tell her to "leave it" on a plate of steak and leave the room for 10 min and when I come back it hasn't been touched such a great dog however if she got loose when another dog was around she wouldn't listen to me at all Lol nothing I said mattered when another dog was around or a cat I spent years working on it but some dogs that's a lot harder to change than other dogs
I have a havanese that would eat that steak as soon as I turned my head lol however if he's loose outside he comes when called no matter what else is out there he has a very solid recall does that mean my havanese loves me more than my Great Dane did? No of course not
Don't think of it like your dog is a traitor just that your dog is an individual that struggles with recall lots of training recall will help but some dogs will definitely be more challenging that others


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Old 12-24-2017, 08:26 PM
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Ah, it's always the bad knee that takes the damage!

If it makes you feel better my dog would actively shove me into a volcano if a squeaker ball was offered.

Might be time to review his obedience and what cues are effective where and also what activities you enjoy doing with your dog. If something feels like work, take a step back and see if there is anything you can do to change it.

Also, Karen Overall's relaxation protocol may help a lot with the anxiety, especially if you can convince your friend to help. https://www.belleplainevet.com/links...ral-protocols/
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