lag time.....

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lag time.....

This is a discussion on lag time..... within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; so, i've noticed when i'm training clover that behaviors come in several sort of steps. i always start a new behavior very slowly to sort ...

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Old 08-20-2009, 01:44 PM
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lag time.....

so, i've noticed when i'm training clover that behaviors come in several sort of steps. i always start a new behavior very slowly to sort of gauge his interest in it and to make sure that i am using a technique that will work to acheive the desired result. this way, if it isn't working out quite right i can leave it alone for a bit and go back to it when i have adjusted my technique.
anyway, i'll just throw a new behavior into a training session a couple of times and i know if he seems really interested in it, he gets really excited about it at first. then i will do a few sessions where i will focus a bit more on that behavior, to really try to shape it. at this point clover is either super focused and just learns the new behavior smoothly or sometimes he will just lie down and look at me (it seems like he is saying "okay mom, you are pushing too hard again i'll just wait for you to get it") and he loses interest in the training session.
so at this point i will skip the new stuff for a bit. then several days later, after not asking for the new behavior for a bit, he'll just do it. just like that....its as if he is just saying "ah-ha" and a little lightbulb is going off in his head
i was just wanting some thoughts/feedback, do your dogs do this "ah-ha" thing?



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Old 08-20-2009, 02:12 PM
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This is what I went through with Peyton and "down"...he would never do it and (as food driven as he is) would ignore the treat when he realized I would not give it to him unless he lied down...one day...HE JUST LIED DOWN FOR A TREAT so I said "yes! good down" and now he has been doing it ever since on command lol. Other than that the only other one was Harvick and "take a bow" he kept lying down (which is normal at first) and it was just for fun so I stopped pushing for it and then the next day when playing he did it.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:03 PM
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I see "ah ha" all the time. I love that moment

som'times its not the behavior, but the treats that affect interest. Kiwi will not get excited to do any behavior unless I use really high value stuff.

I also have to learn to stop myself, I often let sessions drag on too long (especially with Chili since hes the genuis of the bunch) they all get bored after 5-10 or so min (except Tippy, she doesn't want to stop until she explodes)



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Old 08-20-2009, 03:05 PM
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yeah, it doesn't seem like a negative situation to me, just that there is some processing time or something.clover wags his tail and gets excited when i pull out the clicker and the treat bag, but i am afraid i am anthropamorphizing how he is learning(i'm sure i spelled that wrong, if it is even a real word!) and maybe missing something. not too worried about it....more like curious....
thanks



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Old 08-20-2009, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fawkese1 View Post
yeah, it doesn't seem like a negative situation to me, just that there is some processing time or something.clover wags his tail and gets excited when i pull out the clicker and the treat bag, but i am afraid i am anthropamorphizing how he is learning(i'm sure i spelled that wrong, if it is even a real word!) and maybe missing something. not too worried about it....more like curious....
thanks
Som' dogs need a certain amount of reps before they learn to readily repeat a behavior...for example Emma has to be rewarded for a behavior about ten times before she will offer it....I can reward Chili for a behavior ONCE and he will immediately repeat it. He is either smarter...OR has a greater understanding of the game. I think the later.

They have to learn how to learn...so alot of the really really big "ah has" are when the dog graduates in his understanding. Back to my Emma/Chili example...Chili was taught how to learn at a young age and Emma is playing catch up because she was taught things with corrections and is older...its harder to rewrite history then to start blank, but its very possible

the really big one is when they actually understand that their behavior makes the click happen....many dogs figure out quickly that if they do what you ask of them...that you will click....

a clicker savy dog will start to make up his own behaviors to presuade you into clicking...

the moment where they realize they are allowed to make stuff up themselves, and that the stuff they make up will get a click.

basically som' of my dogs will simply offer behaviors they know...and others will offer stuff they know, and if that doesn't work...they get creative. This is why I love doing free shaping...the by product is creativity.

if that make sence. Its hard to put into words.



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Old 08-20-2009, 05:34 PM
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yeah, it makes sense. i think clover probably falls into some space between your emma and chili. i know the he likes the "game" and i would like to try free-shaping with him, what is a good behavior to try to free shape?



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Old 08-20-2009, 05:45 PM
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yeah, it makes sense. i think clover probably falls into some space between your emma and chili. i know the he likes the "game" and i would like to try free-shaping with him, what is a good behavior to try to free shape?

Anything!! Don't start with a goal. Just sit on the floor and reward the dog for doing som'thing....anything at all....besides their normal stuff... don't give any directions or make any noise, at all. very important. Most dogs (at first) will get bored, or frustrated with you sitting there doing nothing and will look/walk away...so you click/treat and the game resets.

Primarily I reward them touching objects or moving wierd...just silly stuff. Sneezing and face wiping with paws are cool if you can catch them.


The stuff will have to be shaped...you can't just catch a behavior...you have to catch tiny steps toward a behavior that they would never offer in its entirety...you learn alot about timing and shaping just as the dog is.

are you familiar with this game?

101 Things to Do with a Box | Karen Pryor Clickertraining

ETA: you can talk when praising, som'times I do, som'times I don't. its so hard to learn to not help the dog that i was silent at first.



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Old 08-21-2009, 02:04 PM
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Anything!! Don't start with a goal. Just sit on the floor and reward the dog for doing som'thing....anything at all....besides their normal stuff... don't give any directions or make any noise, at all. very important. Most dogs (at first) will get bored, or frustrated with you sitting there doing nothing and will look/walk away...so you click/treat and the game resets.

Primarily I reward them touching objects or moving wierd...just silly stuff. Sneezing and face wiping with paws are cool if you can catch them.


The stuff will have to be shaped...you can't just catch a behavior...you have to catch tiny steps toward a behavior that they would never offer in its entirety...you learn alot about timing and shaping just as the dog is.

are you familiar with this game?

101 Things to Do with a Box | Karen Pryor Clickertraining

ETA: you can talk when praising, som'times I do, som'times I don't. its so hard to learn to not help the dog that i was silent at first.
okay, i'll work on it this weekend i think and see what happens!



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