How do you get your dog to "work for you not a scrap of food etc." - Page 6

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How do you get your dog to "work for you not a scrap of food etc."

This is a discussion on How do you get your dog to "work for you not a scrap of food etc." within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; Originally Posted by Markie How about your easiest dog of your own LFL?? 'Easiest' - meaning least pre-existing problems & easiest to train - was ...

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Old 09-18-2017, 08:21 AM
  #51
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Lightbulb Easiest - hmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markie View Post

How about your easiest dog of your own LFL??
'Easiest' - meaning least pre-existing problems & easiest to train - was probly my GSD x Keeshond, i had him for 11 wonderful years; i was 10 & he was 4-MO when we began group-classes with Ms Arnold. I was in 4-H, & his training was my project that year.
He got a red ribbon by just 10-points at the annual Grange Fair, all my fault; i tried to scold him for sniffing during the long-down, he heard his name, looked confused, got up the 2nd time i told him to quit sniffing, & came over in a hesitant sidelong approach. (ALL the dogs were sniffing; the ring had already hosted cattle, goats, & sheep. I should've kept my mouth shut, & let him be.) The next year, he got the blue he deserved.
Wolf was the farm dog - he chased off stray or neighbors' dogs that harassed the livestock, hauled wood on a sled, carried a branch or a split log when i brought wood down from the barn, announced visitors & accompanied them to the door - & firmly back to their cars, when no-one was home.
He did anything a dog could do that was helpful - including winter-camping with me, & lying in the sleeping bag beside the open zipper to block the draft.

next-easiest was Beau, the Bassett x Dachs i adopted from the State College SPCA - a horrible place at the time, run by a man who was later charged with animal cruelty.
[Among other crimes, he wouldn't refill the puppies' bowls if / when they spilled their water - nor did it occur to the idiot that dehydrating a puppy is not only cruel, but dangerous, & doesn't TEACH them anything, & he certainly never thot to buy NON-SPILL dispensers - such as bunny-bottles with dog-sized spouts.)
Beau was chosen specifically b/c of his utter adoration of people & attn; he was my 1st therapy dog, & aside from some minor quirks [a down-stay wasn't broken, in his mind, if he slithered on the ground; only if he stood up & walked...], he was terrific.
The youngest human he ever met was 7-days old; he sniffed her foot as she lay in a carrier on the floor, stood beside her wagging hopefully, & finally lay down & rolled belly-up, looking at her face, still wagging... he couldn't grasp that petting him was outside her abilities,

- terry

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Old 09-18-2017, 08:56 AM
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????????....I guess I missed your training protocol regarding How do you get your dog to "work for you not a scrap of food etc."

I'm sure it is described in your post but I'm just a bit slow I guess.
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:01 PM
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Meet Lily I know this has nothing to do with this topic and I'm sorry.. @drivedog
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Old 09-18-2017, 05:21 PM
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No worries at all. I know you mentioned taking in Lily and it's good to see her and so nice of you to be so caring to add another to your pack.
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Old 09-18-2017, 09:27 PM
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Oh okay good :-) I can never have to many lol :-):-) Seven huskies and a German Shepherd :-) I'm set :-):-)
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:25 AM
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LFL, what about a current dog? A lot of the dogs you mention see to be from the past. Do you currently have a dog?
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:33 AM
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Smile No.

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Originally Posted by jclark343 View Post

...
Do you currently have a dog?
No. Not only do i have no current dog, i have no current pets - a first in my lifetime.
I have houseplants - tillandsia, philodendron, hyacinth - on a windowsill, at my weekend clients' home.

I'm a full-time PCA, providing care in private homes; i work over 60-hours a week.
6 days of every week, i'm working; at that, i barely make ends meet.

I live-in at my weekend clients' home, from Fri noon to Mon noon; I can hardly ask them to "let me bring my personal dog along...", for my on-call nights & my all-day days, on duty with a geriatric client with dementia.

My weekday clients are a couple in a 2-bedroom apt, but with 2 wheelchairs & 2 adults, floor space is at a premium. // The only safe place for a dog at their place would be the spare room, or the sofa; they couldn't be run over, there.

I spent 37 years training [teach cued behaviors], pet-sitting, & nursing dogs for clients; for 45 years, i had my own dogs - usually one at a time, sometimes 2, with or without a foster.
From 1985 to 2009, i specialized in B-Mod - not only dogs, but horses, parrots, cats, herps, other exotics, ______ .

For now, my situation makes owning a dog impossible. // I still do behavior consults for clients' pets of many species.

- terry

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Old 09-19-2017, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DriveDog View Post
I've enjoyed the somewhat wide range of experiences and opinions. Without including anyone else in my opinion, I know it might sound egotistical to suggest that I believe my dog works for me at times. Whether that is to please me ( experiencing reward from my aura/satisfaction/tacit praise) OR the dog finds pleasure/reward with the associated display of behavior and really doesn't give a rip about "working for me", I guess I am not certain of which. But, when a dog needs no typical inducements or coercion to exhibit behavior which is what the human wants and the dog willingly offers, I try and take this display by the dog and apply it further. Personally, I think there are dogs that thrive on their human's "happiness".

Disclaimer: I've had a dog or two which I might suggest thrived on testing my patience so this particular observation of a dog's motivation is not a sweeping generalization but more a potential capacity of some dogs.
I haven't had much (on topic) to contribute to this thread because I have almost no experience with dog training in general much less the levels of training necessary to compete in obedience or dog sports. I managed to teach my previous dog two things very reliably: to not run out the front door and wait for "ok" release command before going outside (she learned that so well she generalized it to apply to any door, even interior ones), and to stand at least one dog length back away from the person bringing food or water and to wait for "ok" release command to approach the bowls once they were placed on the floor.

In those cases, the reward was getting what she wanted (going outside or food/water). She knew sit and down, but never with distance or duration, and had a very vague understanding of leave it in the context of food as long as someone was watching and repeating the command, which is to say she didn't have a good understanding of what was expected at all.

I'm learning a lot from this thread, though, and I find it really interesting that dogs are like people in that they all learn differently. Some people are visual learners, some are auditory, some are tactile. Some dogs do well with clicker training, some don't.

From my very amateur perspective, I could see it being possible that a very handler sensitive dog would get adequate reward just from knowing his owner is pleased. I'm starting to think Mira might be one of these types of dogs. She seems to get more from a heartfelt "good girl" and a pat on the head or chest rub than she does from a treat. I'm using treats for luring to teach the desired behavior, but I've started switching to praise once I think she has a good idea of what I'm asking.

Again, amateur here and I don't know if that's smart or wise or good practice. I also think relying too much on treats makes it easy for someone like me to fall into the bad habit of using the treats as bribes instead of rewards. I've caught myself doing it, both unintentionally and intentionally - showing the treat bag before giving the command. Switching to praise as a reward, as long as it does in fact work as a reward for the dog in question, seems like it would get rid of that potential problem. I'm also still at basic obedience level type training; not sure how rewards for more complex tyles of training might differ.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:43 AM
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@DriveDog here is Maliki. Sorry to get off topic again :-)
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AlwaysTomboy View Post
I managed to teach my previous dog two things very reliably: to not run out the front door and wait for "ok" release command before going outside (she learned that so well she generalized it to apply to any door, even interior ones), and to stand at least one dog length back away from the person bringing food or water and to wait for "ok" release command to approach the bowls once they were placed on the floor.
Your thoughts made me think about something which I guess I completely missed when wondering about the original topic. Your description above basically defines default behaviors your previous dog displayed and even though there is a pending reward which motivates a dog to display desirable default behaviors, there are times where there is no tangible obvious reward, it's just what the dog does because of repetition and consistency. Generally, no verbal or physical cue of any type is required because it has been ingrained and follows a logical progression in the dog's mind ( I guess). My current dog has numerous defaults, most get her a pending reward but rarely a food treat but still there is a reward of sorts. Even eye contact as a default gets her a reward of sorts. The trained default that offers her no reward I can think of is; whether I am on my bike or walking with her, whenever I stop, the dog stops and takes a sitting position in the heel slot awaiting a release. Maybe, just proceeding again is the reward, I'm not sure? Anyway, thank you for your reply, it's making me think more about trained defaults and the process which created them.
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