fearful dogs & DS/CC: how it works - Page 2

Go Back   Dog Forum > Keeping and Caring for Dogs > Dog Training and Behavior

fearful dogs & DS/CC: how it works

This is a discussion on fearful dogs & DS/CC: how it works within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; . here's a snippet of a Dunbar seminar, in which Dr Ian explains classical conditioning of a fearful dog, using food: Dr. Ian Dunbar Speaks ...

User Tag List

Like Tree7Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-04-2018, 01:19 PM
  #11
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boston metro-area, USA
Posts: 1,885
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Arrow Dunbar on DS/CC

.

here's a snippet of a Dunbar seminar, in which Dr Ian explains classical conditioning of a fearful dog, using food:


He also points out that, while the owner of a Bichon-mix would quite possibly ask, "How can I help my barking dog not to be afraid of people?..."
while the owner of a pit-bull or Rott might ask, "How can i stop my dog from barking at people?..."

The root-cause of barking in both instances is fear - but the owner of a bigger dog may not perceive it as such, & a passerby or visitor who's being barked at by the bigger dog, is very likely to interpret the barks as aggression or threats - even tho the sole difference is the size of the dog who's barking.
The Rott & the Bichon-mix may display exactly the same body-language - but the interpretation is markedly different. People make a lot of assumptions about dogs, based on size, breed, even color - if they would only learn to read dogs' signals, much misunderstanding could be prevented.


- terry

.
leashedForLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 04:15 PM
  #12
Senior Member
 
Lorib64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
That sounds counter-intuitive. Nice to have it explained.

I have been rewarding my dog with praise and food when he does not react to other dogs. I think his biggest reward is that we don't go close enough for him to start barking, lunging and he is able to avoid/leave the trigger. He is calmer around other dogs, now. I don't expect him to be very social. I got him at 9 months and don't know much history. Am i limiting him?


It was interesting what you said about different size dogs. My dog tends to bark at larger dogs. I guess the smaller ones don't scare him as much.
leashedForLife likes this.
Lorib64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 05:27 PM
  #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: With Bob
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolutionrocknroll View Post

However, when youíre working with a reactive dog, yes they may start barking in the process, thatís just reality.
If so then you were way too late and most likely have taken 2-3 steps backwards in the process. One has to understand what the "bark" means in a reactive fearful dog and 99% of the time it's an attempt to drive the threat away just as the hackling is among other numerous physical displays. The "bark" most always has the dog over threshold in these situations, end of story IMO. SO much different than a solid nerved dog exhibiting a bark and hold. One would be much better served increasing the distance with a fearful barking reactive dog from the source of the dog's fear instead of trying to give it treats which as I have said numerous times they usually have no interest in whatsoever. If you were able to have your dog break off it's phobic fixation with a piece

I just finished working a couple's Corgi that was the typical freakshow in the car, barked at anyone within 50 feet of their car. Everything was accomplished using DS/CC and everything keyed on NEVER allowing the dog to get to the point of barking. A few sessions of just me and the Corgi driving around in the appropriate places and a boatload of stuffing food in its maw with appropriate distances from the source of its fear while traveling in a car. A few more sessions with the owners and a demonstrated game plan which they could follow. Dog barks, retreat and no treats and if the dog barked it was more a failure of my training and situational awareness. It's a bit tougher at times in a car but such is life.

I can't honestly ever think of a time using any DS/CC methods where I have rewarded the dog for fear barking simply because the dog was near or over threshold. I'm sorry you have such difficulty understanding this but it has been my method for years now and it has worked just fine.
Bob The Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 02-04-2018, 06:52 PM
  #14
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boston metro-area, USA
Posts: 1,885
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Arrow everybody tries to avoid flooding - sometimes it's impossible to avoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorib64 View Post

That sounds counter-intuitive. Nice to have it explained.

I've been rewarding my dog with praise & food when he does not react to other dogs.

I think his biggest reward is that we don't go close enough for him to start barking [or] lunging, & he's able to avoid/ leave the trigger.
He's calmer around other dogs, now. I don't expect him to be very social.

I got him at 9-MO, & don't know much [of his past] history. Am i limiting him?

It was interesting what you said about different size dogs.
My dog tends to bark at larger dogs. I guess the smaller ones don't scare him as much.
.

It's impossible to say at this remove, whether he could become more dog-social.
If i saw him IRL & watched his reactions to a few nonthreatening, sociable dogs, i might have a better feel for his prognosis.

The only difference between what U're doing & counter-conditioning is that DS/CC is noncontingent.
U are rewarding him for calm behavior; but if he's over threshold, or unable for whatever reason to be or become calm, he's not rewarded.

DS/CC is simply 'good things happen when the trigger appears' - the trigger becomes a reliable PREDICTOR of Good Things.
Anticipating a happy event is what changes the dog's feelings about their nemesis.

Ideally, the dog never goes over threshold - but we can't control everything in life.
Strangely-dressed ppl walk down sidewalks, dogs we don't know pop out between parked cars, owners of dog-aggro dogs let them run off leash... stuff happens, & we just try to deal with reality as best we can.
A fluently-practiced, happy, emergency-U-turn is a good thing to have! About face, & briskly get outta Dodge.

- terry

.
leashedForLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Tags
counterconditioning, desensitization, heritable, learned, timidity


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Am. Pit Bull Terriers (info post) SpicyBulldog General Dog Discussion 28 10-27-2017 11:55 AM
Help, I'm begging! - Can anyone tell me *where* this bizarre myth originated? leashedForLife Dog Training and Behavior 5 10-04-2017 11:32 AM
Emotional Support Animals, Therapy Dogs, and Service dogs kmes Training and Behavior Stickies 0 07-10-2017 11:15 AM
Our doodle dogs GitaBooks General Dog Discussion 27 11-30-2015 07:56 PM


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.