Dog won't move when on leash - Page 2

Go Back   Dog Forum > Keeping and Caring for Dogs > Dog Training and Behavior

Dog won't move when on leash

This is a discussion on Dog won't move when on leash within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; My initial thought was to suggest to walk her without the leash at first if you have somewhere safe where you can do that. I ...

User Tag List

Like Tree4Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-29-2019, 07:14 AM
  #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Urban Europe
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
My initial thought was to suggest to walk her without the leash at first if you have somewhere safe where you can do that. I suspect that once the dog learns to "follow you" while walking that the problems with the leash may fall into perspective.

The short leash is probably a good idea. Try just walking a distance with the dog following with the short leash attached but not being held.

When you tug does she pull back or just not respond?
dogslife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2019, 07:22 AM
  #12
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogslife View Post
My initial thought was to suggest to walk her without the leash at first if you have somewhere safe where you can do that. I suspect that once the dog learns to "follow you" while walking that the problems with the leash may fall into perspective.

The short leash is probably a good idea. Try just walking a distance with the dog following with the short leash attached but not being held.

When you tug does she pull back or just not respond?
When I tug she will not move. No pulling back, just not moving.

She will come when I say her name, but, so far, not with the leash on.
WhitneysMom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2019, 08:04 AM
  #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Urban Europe
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Hmm... I'm curious how you finally solve this. It may be necessary to introduce her to the leash slowly. For example, put it on your lap when you're watching TV, playing a game where the leash is introduced as a toy (build positive association) etc.

It could be an interesting process.

My dog was exactly the opposite. When he saw the leash he got extremely excited because he knew that it meant "time for a walk". Outside it took me months and a lot of patience to get him to walk long distances in "trekking mode"; ie. walking calmly next to me without pulling the leash or making a dash for other animals we encounter along the way.

At one point I put the leash on him at various points during the day and just let him wander around the house for 1/2 hour with the leash dragging so that when I *did* grab the leash to take him out his brain didn't snap straight into "YEEEEEHAHAAAA"

Seems to me, with the little I've learned, that "issues with the leash" in general probably boil down to "issues with getting in trekking mode".

In my case, looking at it from the perspective of teaching the dog to get into trekking mode in a sort of zen state of mind made many of the leash issues disappear.

The other part of that was the realisation that I needed to hold the leash short to make it clear who was walking whom but not so short that he was getting excited by it pulling.... Finding that balance took a good couple of weeks.

But I digress. Maybe thinking about it from that perspective will help you... I hope so.
dogslife is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 06-29-2019, 07:06 PM
  #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 851
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Teach TOUCH! to help with leash issues, and other stress issues

Sorry to hear about your dog's leash issues. I am sure that can be frustrating to you.... and stressful to your dog for whatever reason.

I haven't dealt with this exact issue, but a zillion other issues with my dogs! It can be so hard when you can't convince a dog to do something, especially when it will bring your dog joy. Or when you need them to be able to do something, like using a leash to go potty outdoors!! I totally get it and feel for you both.

So for me.....

I try to make fear issues into a fun game with the dogs I work with. This really helps to make it fun and generally reduces overall stress for the dog and the owner. And gets very good long term results!!

Have you tried teaching Touch! to your dog? (some folks call it targeting)

This may help you guys with the whole leash walking issue. I have used it countless times to help my dogs get over issues regarding leashes, collars, harnesses, nail clippers, skateboards, walkers, wheelchairs, medicines, spray bottles, statues, leaves (yes, one dog I worked with had a fear of a big leaf!!) and so much more!

If not familiar with Touch! here is how I do it:

Get some yummy smelling food, rub it into the palm of your hand to get the scent on your hand. Then open your hand, put it out to your dog, say Touch! and then as soon as your dog comes to sniff your hand, immediately mark the dog's correct choice to put his nose to your hand or sniff your hand. Mark it by saying a quick YES! and then pay asap! Pay meaning give your dog some delicious little treats.

Do this often, moving your hand around in many different positions, like near your dog, farther away, lower, higher, to the side, above the head, etc etc. Make it FUN! And rewarding.

When your dog fully understands Touch means to touch his/her nose to your hand, then use this fun game(or lesson) with other items. For example, ask your dog to touch items inside your home, or things outside on a walk. Start with things your dog is not afraid of like, a toy, or blanket, or a bone, a brush, a piece of mail, etc. Outdoor things can be a small statue, garden hose, skateboard, bicycle, umbrella, shopping cart, etc.

Then you can graduate to things your dog is uncomfortable with to help them overcome their fear or anxiety. Or use it IN ADVANCE of your dog becoming worried about things. For example, one day my Puma pup saw a lil fabric windmill thingie. She got worried about it, so we did Touch with it. In just a few moments she was over it, no fear or worry. Same with a bicycle with odd streamers. Also I introduced her to a zillion other things like skateboards, wheelchairs, walkers, you name it, using this method!

Works like a charm! Make it a fun game, reward it like crazy. Their fears can vanish as their brain now connects the scary or odd item with the fun game and the yummy food rewards and your genuine praise!! Basically I am using Touch as part of my counter conditioning process.

So......perhaps you can do this over and over again with your dog's leash????? Bring it out, ask your dog to Touch it and reward, reward, reward!

Put it on the couch and do Touch. On the ground, in the air, ask your dog to jump up to touch it, outside, inside, up on a bench, in bed, before eating meals, yada yada yada.

Then...progress to putting the leash on your dog inside your house and play Touch with other items, always with food rewards and high praise! Asking her to walk towards the item to touch.

Then...when she will do this willingly, grab the leash in your hand (inside the house still) and gently play Touch again with items, as she is now walking with you and the leash towards the item!


Then...finally do all this outside with the leash! Ask her touch stuff outside and then reward, reward, reward.

I am betting this will really work for you guys! It has worked for me countless times with all kinds of dogs!!

You want to change your dog's brain pathways to think: Seeing that leash is the BEST THING EVER!!!

Last edited by AthenaLove; 06-29-2019 at 07:12 PM.
AthenaLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 03:00 PM
  #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Urban Europe
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AthenaLove View Post
Sorry to hear about your dog's leash issues. I am sure that can be frustrating to you.... and stressful to your dog for whatever reason. /snip/

I'll steal some of that advice, if you don't mind. The remaining issues we have with fixation are mostly related to cats. I've taught him "touch" already but never thought to use it as a way to get his mind focused back on me again. Up until now I've been using treats to reward desirable behaviour and not to bribe him into acting desirably, if you see the difference, so the thought didn't occur to me.

Unfortunately our neighbourhood has a large number of cats that live on the streets and not a single one of them is very fond of dogs.... The dog is very curious and will sometimes make a quick move toward a cat, especially one that is laying under a car that I don't see and therefore cannot avoid.

The cat invariably either get its back up or runs and at that point the only thing I can do is to step out in front of the dog to stop the chase instinct and get him to sit for a couple of minutes while he returns to earth.

The problem I have with this approach is that I walk off leash with him a lot (in places where it's safe from traffic, of course). There aren't any cats there but in some places he has done the same with rabbits. He always comes back after a couple of minutes but I don't like it for safety reasons that I can't snap him out of it.

As for the other issues with walking on a leash I've solved all of those with a lot of patience and trying various things I've read, most of which didn't work. He walks fine on a leash now, even in close proximity to birds and other dogs.... but we're not there yet when it comes to cats.

Anyway I don't want to hijack your thread so I probably shouldn't have brought this up at all. Thank you for the tips though. I appreciate it.

Quote:
You want to change your dog's brain pathways to think: Seeing that leash is the BEST THING EVER!!!
I should have made more clear that this was always his frame of mind. The problem initially was that he would get overly excited about going on walks, which I didn't manage well at the beginning, and which lead to a long process of figuring out what I was doing wrong.

Last edited by dogslife; 06-30-2019 at 03:05 PM.
dogslife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2019, 08:08 PM
  #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 851
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Dogs n cats:... play this fun game to teach the dog to relax!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogslife View Post
I'll steal some of that advice, if you don't mind.

The remaining issues we have with fixation are mostly related to cats.

The cat invariably either get its back up or runs and at that point the only thing I can do is to step out in front of the dog to stop the chase instinct and get him to sit for a couple of minutes while he returns to earth.

The problem I have with this approach is that I walk off leash with him a lot (in places where it's safe from traffic, of course). There aren't any cats there but in some places he has done the same with rabbits. He always comes back after a couple of minutes but I don't like it for safety reasons that I can't snap him out of it.
Hi, @dogslife!

I am glad you liked my advice enough to steal it! LOL!

Hopefully the op or others won't consider our posts hijacking here, since it all has to do with leash issues, which most of us have to deal with at some point in our training, right?

You say you ask your dog to sit (quietly/calmly, I assume) for a couple of minutes after seeing a random cat, right? That is what so many people do. But--- I think that can set us up for failure or frustration because we are asking for the dog's brain to go from 300% excitement/stimulation to level zero calm. Pretty hard to do, right? Maybe over time, with lots and lots of intense training as the dog's brain learns what we want.

So instead I have had incredible success with my dogs doing the following:

When we see any animal I train my dogs to do the "Where's the....game?"

(Basically this game uses counter conditioning principles...)

So if we see a random cat on our walks, I immediately say to my Puma pup, "Puma, look there's a kitty!" so she can spot it. Then I say "Puma, "Where's the kitty?" She knows this is her cue to look at the stimulus (other animal) and then look back at me for a high value treat. And praise! We do this over and over and over and over again, at any and all opportunities. She can look at the animal for as long as she likes if she is not reacting. She gets rapid succession of high value treats for looking at the other animal calmly.

We practice this game on deer, squirrels, cats, other dogs, birds, rabbits, lil animals in cages in pet shops like hamsters, guinea pigs, rabbits, birds, etc)

We practice this game at varying distances from the stimuli (other animal) until she can get closer without any reacting. Always being 100% safe and very respectful to the other animals.

I love doing this method (or game) because it actually teaches and allows the dog to look at the other animal, which over time makes the dog not so crazy about seeing another animal! Other methods seem to discourage looking at other animals, just need to focus on owner/ trainer at all times.


But---at first I never, ever require my dog to sit or lay down
. Way too challenging and I try to always set my dogs up for success so I can constantly be rewarding their good choices!! I know that if I ask for a sit under very high stimulation there is a high probability of failure.

I consider this one of the biggest (and most common!) training mistakes that people make. Asking too much of dog at the moment in the course of their training journey!

In the beginning I am just happy if my dog is doing anything BUT chasing, pulling on leash, and barking!
Any other calm polite behavior is fine by me, no need to sit or lay down. Later I can train that if desired. Puma can do this now, on her own, usually without me even asking her. Very nice. But we have practiced a ton to get to this point!!!

Here are some of my real examples that we encountered recently:

Example 1: One day Puma and I were walking and we passed a lady with a dog. Her dog started being super reactive to mine. What did she do? She kept telling the dog NO! NO! STOP! SIT! SIT! SIT!

Did the dog ever sit? Heck no! Did it stop barking? Nope.

Could the dog sit quiet at that point?
Very highly unlikely. They simply weren't there yet in their training. And honestly with that approach, they may never get there. Poor stressed dog. Sigh. I felt so bad for the dog, who was basically getting yelled at for being stressed or overstimulated. Certainly wasn't going to remedy the stress that way...

I really, really wanted to share my method with the lady (to help the dog) but alas I did not, as I certainly didn't want to offend her or make her feel worse.

Back to my dog.....

What did I do?

I kept our distance, but instead of requiring my dog to sit, I instead played our game... I asked Puma, "Where's the doggie?"

Puma looked at me asap, I said "Yes!" and gave her some yummy treats from my doggie treat pouch that I was wearing. My Puma never barked or reacted at all to the other dog. In fact, I sat down on the curb across the street from them and Puma on her own layed down and started giving calming signals to the other dog. (who certainly couldn't see the signals because the other owner was so busy yelling at her doggie, forcing him to sit.)

Example 2: Puma and I saw a random cat on our walk the other day. The sweet cat started meowing gently to Puma. Huh? Inviting Puma to come closer? Luring her? Daring her? I was unsure and so was young Puma. So we instantly started playing our "Where's the kitty?" game!!! (At a safe distance)

Within minutes, the cat let Puma actually get close enough to sniff her! Huh? Seriously? Then Puma layed down in front of the cat. Then she actually was so comfortable that she (Puma pup) flopped upside down in her very silly puppy mode a few feet from the cat! Who was at that point chilling, laying down on the ground as well! I actually have pics to remind me of how amazing and sweet this encounter was! Maybe I will post them someday here...

Anyway.....Why was Puma able to do this? Because we practice this game over and over and over again. Very high priority in our life.

Maybe @dogslife, you could try this game or something similar and see if it helps your doggie to be able to settle around cats. It has worked wonders for me and my dogs.

I know it is super hard when the cat is a surprise, but if you practice this ultra fun game a zillion times, it will be so much easier when your dog suddenly spots a cat! The below advice doesn't apply to you most likely, since I can tell you work with your dog, but it is worth repeating for so many other people in order to help their dogs....so here goes again:

In summary: I see this all the time. Asking too much from a dog, setting them up for failure, only to get trainer burnout and thus frustration ensues from both dog and owner/trainer.

I always try to set my dog up for success...and then reward the heck out of their great decisions!!!!

Last edited by AthenaLove; 07-02-2019 at 08:18 PM.
AthenaLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 01:56 AM
  #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Urban Europe
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
This is really brilliant stuff. Thank you. I almost feel like taking the dog out right now to go look for cats!
AthenaLove likes this.
dogslife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 04:53 PM
  #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Urban Europe
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
So.... We had our first close encounter with a cat tonight.

I didn't have "treats" with me (I seldom do) but the dog spotted the cat and the cat held its ground (tentatively) without getting too defensive or running away.

Where I would normally have distracted the dog and/or walked in the other direction I gave him the opportunity to observe the cat. No barking, no lunging, no pulling. Leash slack.

The dog sat (apparently having learned from me that this is what you must do when you see a cat) and remained still but very alert at about 1/2 meter distance.

Both the dog and the cat appeared to be checking each other out and after a minute or two I said, "let's go" and the dog immediately disengaged and followed me.

I gave him a big snuggle as a reward. Maybe I need to start carrying treats again. This was really good.
AthenaLove likes this.
dogslife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 04:55 PM
  #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 851
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I needed to change my mindset about WHY Gracie was leash reactive to help her

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogslife View Post
This is really brilliant stuff. Thank you. I almost feel like taking the dog out right now to go look for cats!
@dogslife, You are so welcome!!! I am so happy to hear that my post inspired you to want to try it asap with the local cats!

I feel that way about dog training in general, so I am always so incredibly pleased when I can share my experiences... and have others become inspired to actually WANT to go work with their dogs!!! You made me so happy writing that!!!

Honestly, in the very beginning, I used to 100% absolutely dread taking my Gracie out on a walk, knowing she was going to literally BLOW UP upon seeing other dogs (or cats, or deer, or u name it...)

But that was because I was doing it ALL WRONG! Every bit of it. I was getting super embarrassed, super sensitive, feeling like a horrible dog owner--- and thus transmitting all these negative emotions to Gracie.

Every time I saw a dog in the distance, I immediately did the "oh **** dance".... and so of course she followed suite!

Plus I was using all the wrong training philosophies and methods, just making it worse.
Vicious cycle!

I originally thought my dog was being "dominant" and aggressive acting because of that. OMG I was so OFF BASE and WRONG!!

Gracie was actually totally fearful and nervous and anxious and STRESSED by seeing other dogs and cats, etc.

It wasn't until I changed my MINDSET about WHY she was reacting that we actually started making progress and turning around the crazy reactivity responses!!!!

And when I started studying about true counter conditioning--- and then actually applying the principles.... wonderful things began to happen over time.

But this takes time as I was basically rewiring or retraining my dog's brain to learn new positive ideas and responses.

Lots and lots of practice, practice, practice!! And then more practice. And tons of patience.

And a zillion super yummy high value food treats....and genuine praise!!!!

But-- when you do it right, it gets FUN! Fun for both the dog and the owner/handler!!!

And....it makes you actually excited to train
, you look forward to your walks with your reactive dog, you WANT to find the triggers (the other dog or cat) because now your dog is happy and can handle seeing the other trigger.....even if it still at a bit of a distance....

For me.....witnessing progress with my dogs is amazing and ultra rewarding!!!
dogslife likes this.

Last edited by AthenaLove; 07-03-2019 at 04:57 PM.
AthenaLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 05:33 PM
  #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 851
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Great dog and cat interaction here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogslife View Post
So.... We had our first close encounter with a cat tonight.

Where I would normally have distracted the dog and/or walked in the other direction I gave him the opportunity to observe the cat. No barking, no lunging, no pulling. Leash slack.

Both the dog and the cat appeared to be checking each other out and after a minute or two I said, "let's go" and the dog immediately disengaged and followed me.
Ooooh so great! Love to hear this!

You gave your dog the opportunity to observe and actually check out his environment (which for you guys tonight included the cat!!)....and your dog "repaid" your fairness, generosity and trust in him by actually being cool about it, and by listening to you when it was time to go. (or something like that, lol)

I bet you both enjoyed the moment? I love watching two unknown animals interact! Very cool. So much better to me than demanding a dog look only at the handler, but not at the interesting things in their environment.

I equate it to... the parents who are always "barking" at their human kids to never touch anything in a store! OMG. What in the world does that teach a child? Ummm well to be really frustrated, for one thing. Better to teach the child what is appropriate and polite, safe behavior. Just like with dogs!

I prefer to teach differently, working with the child (or dog)--- rather than against the child (or dog)....

Teach them what you love, then heavily reward/reinforce that!



Thanks for sharing this wonderful interaction with us here! Good job to both you and your dog!!!!
dogslife likes this.
AthenaLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.