creating leash aggression???

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creating leash aggression???

This is a discussion on creating leash aggression??? within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; i wasn't sure where to put this behavior or training...but anyway so i've been working on leash training clover...we are doing really well. the only ...

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Old 11-23-2009, 01:02 AM
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creating leash aggression???

i wasn't sure where to put this behavior or training...but anyway

so i've been working on leash training clover...we are doing really well. the only thing that i'm not sure how to deal with is dogs...clover gets soooo excited about meeting other dogs...sometimes it is really embarrassing...

i'm not as worried about being embarrassed as i am about how to deal with this behavior and teach him to be polite...one reason i've been looking into group classes i'm hoping to learn this...in an environment with other dogs learning the same thing...

anyway, i feel like lately he has been showing signs of frustration when he doesn't get to meet another dog while on leash...twice now in fact he has done a lunging thing...lunged to the end of the leash, as if desperate to meet the other dog, and made a very frustrated yelping noise, there was no growl or anything but i'm a little concerned that i might be creating leash aggression...i mean by frustrating him in those situations...if that makes sense...

so far when we see other dogs we either stay far enough away to avoid reaction, i put him in a sit and keep him there until the dog has passed, or i ask permission to allow him to greet the other dog...greeting the other dog has had the best over-all results, he will greet and then we can go on with our day, but it isn't always an option...



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Last edited by fawkese1; 11-23-2009 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:01 AM
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is there a way to reward his good behavior with allowing him to meet the other dog? At least occasionally?



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Old 11-23-2009, 11:21 AM
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I'm a pretty shy person, but I would bite that down, and just say "OHHH my goofy pup really wants to meet your dog is that OK?" and try it that way.

I find also dropping my leash makes a better 'meeting on leash' because with all the straining at the end of the leash, one of them is going to growl-by dropping my leash, I at least eliminate Mikey giving the wrong signals (straining) and I can trust him to 'get out of dodge' should the other dog be trouble..

If they say No, I'd be prepared with treats and do a heeling exercise-like that one that was in the video Crio sent me for desensitizing a 'fearful dog-aggressive dog' (for us to work on with Mandy) -the lady pretty much starting heeling, turning etc with treats and the dog gave her full attention.

But that's just my guess on what to do ?
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:13 PM
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is there a way to reward his good behavior with allowing him to meet the other dog? At least occasionally?
would that be premack? i do try this, as often as possible...like i said, we have the smoothest time when we can "go say hi" to the other dog, sometimes clover starts trying to initiate play, but usually it is a good sniff and some tail wagging...then we can go about our business....
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I'm a pretty shy person, but I would bite that down, and just say "OHHH my goofy pup really wants to meet your dog is that OK?" and try it that way.

I find also dropping my leash makes a better 'meeting on leash' because with all the straining at the end of the leash, one of them is going to growl-by dropping my leash, I at least eliminate Mikey giving the wrong signals (straining) and I can trust him to 'get out of dodge' should the other dog be trouble..
i'm not shy about it generally, but i've met with some very fearful and/or annoyed responses to this...doesn't really bother me, but it means that dog greetings aren't always and option... i don't always let go of the leash, that would really freak people out...clover looks scary to people...especially when he is bounding at their little dog...hard to convince them that one of his best playmates is a little guy...but i do let out any tension that is in it...
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If they say No, I'd be prepared with treats and do a heeling exercise-like that one that was in the video Crio sent me for desensitizing a 'fearful dog-aggressive dog' (for us to work on with Mandy) -the lady pretty much starting heeling, turning etc with treats and the dog gave her full attention.
i'm hoping that something like this would work...i've tried different things like this, for example when i put him in a sit, he gets steady rewards for being patient and sitting...i've also done direction changes and heavy rewards, but what he wants more then any food i've offered is to go meet the new dog....

so far, he isn't imo leash aggressive, but i've read that it is often created by the dog being frustrated at not being allowed to greet another dog, and then there is tension on the leash....and i definitely see clover getting frustrated...i'm hoping to prevent this problem...i think that if i could set up controled meetings with other dogs to teach a patient greeting, using the greeting as a reward, but i don't know who i could get to help with this...i suppose i could try a couple of training sessions at the dog park? what do you think? since i know people are bringing their dogs there to play with other dogs anyway?
i already use off leash freedom as a reward for recall...i call him to come he comes and i leash him then unleash and release....and a variety of things like that...works really well, except of course for other dogs, there is a certain space between me and clover and clover and the dog that we still haven't got down, but that space is increasing...



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Old 11-23-2009, 12:33 PM
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If they say No, I'd be prepared with treats and do a heeling exercise-like that one that was in the video Crio sent me for desensitizing a 'fearful dog-aggressive dog' (for us to work on with Mandy) -the lady pretty much starting heeling, turning etc with treats and the dog gave her full attention.
Where's the video?
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:56 PM
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would that be premack?
technically...all PR training is premack so yes.

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i'm hoping that something like this would work...i've tried different things like this, for example when i put him in a sit, he gets steady rewards for being patient and sitting...i've also done direction changes and heavy rewards, but what he wants more then any food i've offered is to go meet the new dog
thats why I think meeting the dog is your solution at least until you can install som' really strong behaviors....perhaps practice attention far away from a dog and move closer?

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.i suppose i could try a couple of training sessions at the dog park? what do you think? since i know people are bringing their dogs there to play with other dogs anyway?
This is where I work on Chili's barrier frustration issues...I think it will work for your situation as well.

but yes, the frustration can change from whining... to barking and lunging pretty fast...so I'd start on this asap.



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Old 11-23-2009, 02:10 PM
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This is where I work on Chili's barrier frustration issues...I think it will work for your situation as well.

but yes, the frustration can change from whining... to barking and lunging pretty fast...so I'd start on this asap.
that is my worry...so i'm glad i asked...

the more i think about it, the more i feel silly for not using the dog park before... then i don't have to worry about annoying people, and there are plenty of dogs that we already know there...i may even be able to talk some folks into helping me at other times when they see me working on it there too...

Quote:
thats why I think meeting the dog is your solution at least until you can install som' really strong behaviors....perhaps practice attention far away from a dog and move closer?
do you have suggestions for anything else to do in the mean time? one of the 2 lunging incidents happened at the vet...in a situation where the other dog's owner wasn't able to let his dog say hello...i just tried not to react too much, called clover back to me and tried to get his attention...and i rewarded him for making eye contact for a sec during the whole thing...

edit: one of my struggles with this is that i am so used to using leash corrections....i've gotten much better, but i definitely don't want to use corrections in this situation...any way...



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Old 11-23-2009, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fawkese1 View Post

do you have suggestions for anything else to do in the mean time? one of the 2 lunging incidents happened at the vet...in a situation where the other dog's owner wasn't able to let his dog say hello...i just tried not to react too much, called clover back to me and tried to get his attention...and i rewarded him for making eye contact for a sec during the whole thing...

.

thats pretty much what you have to do if you can't leave...damage control...just make the best of it...perhaps walk outside with him if he wont stop



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Old 11-23-2009, 03:40 PM
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slow those meetings down. drag them out.

prearrage walks with your neighbors and what not..and do this

walk for a bit to where he glimpses the other dog. keep walking. arrange another glimpse..longer this time..do it again..longer and longer each time..reward good behavior..then try walking in tandem..one on one side of the street and the other person and dog on the other. then just kind of drift towards each other and keep walking. reward for good behavior and break it off and try again another day.

you are basically making it look to the dog like he got introed to this other dog a lot instead of just once..

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Old 11-23-2009, 03:57 PM
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addendum.

what im suggesting is a sort of backhanded positive reinforcement masquerading as extinction.

by controlling the environment and setting him up to win, and through extinction of - behavior(you walk away when he acts up) you add to the reinforcement of good behavior.
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