clicker question

Go Back   Dog Forum > Keeping and Caring for Dogs > Dog Training and Behavior

clicker question

This is a discussion on clicker question within the Dog Training and Behavior forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; Before getting a puppy I thought I would use a verbal marker rather than a clicker, but after a week of doing this I've come ...

User Tag List

Like Tree12Likes
  • 3 Post By Grabby
  • 5 Post By inkii
  • 4 Post By amaryllis

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-15-2014, 06:05 AM
  #1
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
clicker question

Before getting a puppy I thought I would use a verbal marker rather than a clicker, but after a week of doing this I've come to understand how much easier it is to be precise and consistent (at least for me) with a clicker than a verbal marker.

I'm wondering about clicking and reward. My puppy is food motivated if he's hungry enough, but often for hours after a meal he will not even take an offered treat. And these are good things - liver, dehydrated beef, etc. If I load the clicker when he's hungry, establishing that click = good, should I subsequently offer a treat every time I click, even if he doesn't take it?
GCB2108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 06:12 AM
  #2
Senior Member
 
Grabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 4,437
Mentioned: 250 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
If you're feeding kibble, use his meal allotment for training treats. When you need a super high value treat, you can use something tastier. You should offer a treat with every click.
Tess, inkii and CadenceDiscordia like this.
Grabby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 06:13 AM
  #3
Senior Member
 
zouzou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I'm not experienced with clicker training, so can't answer your direct question, but, I think I've read that clicker trainers use their dog's meals as reinforcement, 1) so they're working for that big pile of reinforcement, and 2) so their dog isn't too full up.

You could also restrict your training to times when he is hungry, before or a couple of hours after his meal.

And, from Sue Ailsby's training levels:
Quote:
The click tells the dog that she did what you wanted. You go to work, at the end of the week you get paid. The dog goes to work, when she hears the click, SHE gets paid. EVERY CLICK IS FOLLOWED BY A TREAT. Click MEANS treat. It doesn't have to always be a food treat – it could be a toy, a good cuddle, a tug, a door opening, or anything else she wants. For ease of delivery and developing a flow of training, though, food will be your primary "weapon".
You could investigate and see if there are other things your dog finds reinforcing, as well as food?

Some thoughts on using meals as rewards here: http://eileenanddogs.com/2014/03/24/...kibble-treats/

Last edited by zouzou; 04-15-2014 at 06:17 AM.
zouzou is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 04-15-2014, 06:36 AM
  #4
Senior Member
 
zouzou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Another great blog post about using kibble as well as high value treats, and how to get there: There is Hope: One Trainer’s Journey from Liverwurst to Kibble | eileenanddogs

(Eileenanddogs is a great site in general. She's an amateur trainer who is really invested in the theory behind clicker training, posts often, and uses her own mistakes as learning opportunities! Plus her dogs are super cute )
zouzou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 12:52 PM
  #5
Senior Member
 
inkii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Jacksonville, NC, USA
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Yes, every click has to be followed by a reward. It lets them know the precise behavior they're being rewarded for. The click itself, no matter how happy it appears to make dogs by association, is not a reward on its own.

I'm another that uses kibble as a training treat. For extra oomph, put some sort of smelly treat in a baggie with kibble in the fridge overnight -- hotdogs, sardines or cheese work well for this. The kibble absorbs the scent of the better treat and becomes "super kibble" which dogs are more willing to work for than the regular stuff.

When they're puppies, I have LOTS of training to do and need every reinforcer I can scrap together, so all or most of their food comes from training sessions. When they're adults and I'm mostly content with their level of training, it depends on what my training needs are.

At the risk of disagreeing with Sue Ailsby (which should be a crime, really), I do take issue with how broad she makes the list of reinforcers because it's a slippery slope down to "but I praised him, so that counts." I reserve the click for reinforcers big enough that the dog will actively work for them. If I'm going to reward with something like "a good cuddle" or "opening a door," which my dogs like but wouldn't intentionally work for, then I don't use the clicker -- I just provide the cuddle/door-opening immediately after the behavior with praise as a bridge. Food and toys are the only reinforcers I click with because they are reliably, consistently reinforcing for my dog and I know that it will be a big enough "pay check" to justify a click.
inkii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 01:52 PM
  #6
Senior Member
 
Dawnben's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,929
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
The click is the most important it marks the behavior you want. If treat is not accepted just use praise or a pat to reward.
Dawnben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 03:58 PM
  #7
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks for the replies. I've been experimenting with feeding more of his food during training today, and it's helping, but I still have to make sure I don't ask too much from him. I just got the clicker and started loading it, though I only did 7 clicks because his attention started wandering.

This could be its own thread, but I've been reading Ian Dunbar's Before and After getting your puppy, and in his section on socialization he says he only lets people interact with his puppies if the puppy will sit, lie and stay at their command. He also says you need to introduce your puppy to 100 people before he's 12 weeks. I consider it a success if my puppy sits to greet me or my wife, but he still flips out with excitement when he meets someone new. Is it really realistic to expect a 9 week old puppy to be so well behaved?
GCB2108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 04:29 PM
  #8
Senior Member
 
amaryllis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,712
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCB2108 View Post
Thanks for the replies. I've been experimenting with feeding more of his food during training today, and it's helping, but I still have to make sure I don't ask too much from him. I just got the clicker and started loading it, though I only did 7 clicks because his attention started wandering.

This could be its own thread, but I've been reading Ian Dunbar's Before and After getting your puppy, and in his section on socialization he says he only lets people interact with his puppies if the puppy will sit, lie and stay at their command. He also says you need to introduce your puppy to 100 people before he's 12 weeks. I consider it a success if my puppy sits to greet me or my wife, but he still flips out with excitement when he meets someone new. Is it really realistic to expect a 9 week old puppy to be so well behaved?
No. A 9 week old puppy is the equivalent of a 1 year old human. I don't expect much from 1 year olds. I would expect them to toddle over if I called them, hand stuff to me if I asked, things like that, but I wouldn't get bent out of shape if they didn't do any of that, either. Same thing with puppies.

I think what Dunbar is getting at is that you don't want to train your puppy to have bad manners while socializing him. If you let your puppy jump on people, chew on people, etc. in the name of socializing, you're going to have a hard time when he gets bigger and thinks that's how you greet strangers.

So introduce him to people and give him lots of treats while doing so, but end the session if he starts getting out of hand and try again later.

Please note: socializing doesn't mean introducing 100 able bodied, clean shaven young white people. You really want to get as much variety as you can, especially with mobility devices like walkers, canes, wheelchairs, etc. Dogs can be really freaked out by that kind of thing. You also want to expose your puppy to people on bikes, skateboards, etc, people running, people with limps, etc. When somebody tells me their dog is racist or hates the disabled, I know someone didn't bother to expose that dog to people outside their own social circle.
cookieface, Rain, Grabby and 1 others like this.

Last edited by amaryllis; 04-15-2014 at 04:32 PM.
amaryllis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 10:28 PM
  #9
Senior Member
 
Ronne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
My puppy just hit 7 months old and we're still working on being calm when meeting new people. He'll sometimes sit, but you can see that almost every inch of him is ready to get excited and jumpy once he gets the release word. Especially if it's a BRAND NEW PERSON.
I can't imagine him sitting calmly at 9 weeks...
Ronne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Clicker training question Andy Mopley Dog Training and Behavior 1 01-31-2014 08:15 PM
Question about Clicker Training khyland Dog Training and Behavior 10 04-08-2013 09:39 PM
Question about clicker training Jodymczane Dog Training and Behavior 9 05-06-2012 10:06 PM
Clicker Basset training question. lumberjack Dog Training and Behavior 5 11-08-2011 09:57 AM
i have a clicker training question for you all :) fawkese1 Dog Training and Behavior 15 08-20-2010 12:57 AM


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.