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UTI/Urine Scent Information

This is a discussion on UTI/Urine Scent Information within the Dog Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; It sounds like the lab work they want to do is a urine culture and sensitivity, where they'll culture a sample to see IF bacteria ...

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Old 02-12-2016, 01:32 PM
  #31
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It sounds like the lab work they want to do is a urine culture and sensitivity, where they'll culture a sample to see IF bacteria grows, and if so, test different antibiotics against it to see which it is susceptible to. This is a definitive test to tell if bacteria is present in the urine and what can be used to treat it, but it is considerably more expensive than a standard urinalysis, so it's not uncommon to treat a suspected UTI with an antibiotic that has good broad spectrum coverage first to save the expense if that is effective. In cases where an individual wants to know exactly what they are dealing with and how to fix it, or where one or more antibiotics have been used with minimal improvement, it is particularly important. When you get into trying 3 or 4 different antibiotics trying to find one which is effective, it can be more expensive than to just do the culture and know which will do the job, so that is a consideration.

I've had C&S done on a dog and cat with urinary problems (dog still having UTI signs after one course of antibiotics, cat was urinating inappropriately and I wanted to be certain it wasn't a UTI before starting behavioral meds), as well as a dog and a cat with a chronic sinus infection. In two of the cases (both dogs), the culture was able to pinpoint the culprit and give effective medications, in the urinary cat's case, it was an expensive test that only confirmed what we already suspected (no UTI), but I felt better knowing for certain, and in the cat with the sinus problem, it was also negative for bacteria, which was frustrating, because I was hoping to find a bacterial infection that would be easily treated, but at least I knew that antibiotics weren't going to help.

If the symptoms don't improve with this course of antibiotics, I would definitely consider doing the culture to try and pinpoint the bacteria involved. Make sure you check with your vet first though, as sometimes they want them off antibiotics for a period of time before doing it.

You may also ask them about medications/supplements to change the urinary PH if they've indicated that it is a problem. I know of several that are commonly used, and contain naturally occurring compounds, but in amounts that would be difficult to achieve from feeding foods rich in those compounds only (similar to taking a calcium supplement rather than just eating foods rich in calcium). Also, check the websites of the RX diet(s) that you are feeding, and maybe even email them, a lot of times they have coupons or specials that may help with the expense. Some RX foods are available through online pet food suppliers, and that may be a cheaper way of getting them, though your vet still has to ok the script. Kibbles and bits and gravy train aren't good foods, but urinary problems happen even in dogs eating "great" foods, so don't feel bad, and don't put yourself into debt trying to feed a super premium food, though there are middle of the road/good foods which won't cost much more and will be better for him in general if you can switch.

I would definitely mention to the vet the odor you have noticed, it may be nothing, or they may recommend looking into it further, but better to let them know and see what they say
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:58 PM
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My basset has a UTI right now. He also always has smelled like corn chips, for him it has nothing to do with the UTI. His urine does have a strong musky smell which only was noticeable when he got the UTI. We went to the vet last night and they confirmed bacteria and blood in the urine as well as a raised PH. He's on an antibiotic but also chinese herbs. The vet I see does chinese herbs, homeopathy, holistic and allopathic too when needed. If you are using antibiotics you should be using some type of probiotic, I'm using kefir. Don't feed at the same time, he's getting the antibiotic at night and the probiotic in the morning. I also talked to her about using milk thistle, she suggested that with dandelion root and burdock root. I AM NOT saying this is what you should be doing. Only this is my plan right now. I have also started to add ACV with mother to the water. I use to do this all the time but got lax over the years. If you are putting ACV in the water do not use metal bowels. It is important to know the type of bacteria you are dealing with so you know what kind of antibiotic you should be using. I was told that it can take a while to get it under control. We are starting at 10 days and going for a month if needed with the antibiotics. The chinese herbs will be given for a month.

Many things can cause a UTI, poor diet, stress, bacteria getting into the urethra. I agree you need to get your dog onto a better food. In the short term those brands may be cheaper but you end up with more health issues down the line. I don't feed kibble so I am not really up on the better brands. My mom started feeding her dogs Nulo, she got it from Petsmart. She lives paycheck to paycheck and can not afford the 'best', but it didn't look too bad either. Nulo Medal Series Dog Food | Review | Rating | Recalls

Again, I am not recommending you follow the route I am with Shorty. This is what I came up with, with my vet. You do not want to let a UTI go too far, untreated they can be fatal. My sister's cat had chronic UTI's and it's what killed him. She didn't realize he had come down with another one and it went untreated. Good luck, it's something that can take some time to get sorted out.
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:54 PM
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@annageckos i know she wants to stay into her budget of $25 which is why i posted the ones closest to the budget but i really think needs to get even higher quality foods like acana, earthborn, fromm and a few less expensive ones. Anything has to be better then gravy train
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by annageckos View Post
If you are putting ACV in the water do not use metal bowels.
Just curious, why not?
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:13 AM
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It reacts with the metal. At least that is what I've always heard. I'm reading conflicting info about it being ok to use with stainless steel. But do not use it with galvanized steel. To be safe I just don't use it with metal bowls at all. Which is not a problem with me because I use ceramic bowls anyway. I have a cat that likes to stand on the lip of the bowl and flips lighter bowls.

And now I see too late that my damned auto correct replaced bowls with bowels. Opps.

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Old 02-13-2016, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busannie View Post
It sounds like the lab work they want to do is a urine culture and sensitivity, where they'll culture a sample to see IF bacteria grows, and if so, test different antibiotics against it to see which it is susceptible to. This is a definitive test to tell if bacteria is present in the urine and what can be used to treat it, but it is considerably more expensive than a standard urinalysis, so it's not uncommon to treat a suspected UTI with an antibiotic that has good broad spectrum coverage first to save the expense if that is effective.

I've had C&S done on a dog and cat with urinary problems (dog still having UTI signs after one course of antibiotics, cat was urinating inappropriately and I wanted to be certain it wasn't a UTI before starting behavioral meds), as well as a dog and a cat with a chronic sinus infection. In two of the cases (both dogs), the culture was able to pinpoint the culprit and give effective medications

If the symptoms don't improve with this course of antibiotics, I would definitely consider doing the culture to try and pinpoint the bacteria involved. Make sure you check with your vet first though, as sometimes they want them off antibiotics for a period of time before doing it.

You may also ask them about medications/supplements to change the urinary PH if they've indicated that it is a problem.

I would definitely mention to the vet the odor you have noticed, it may be nothing, or they may recommend looking into it further, but better to let them know and see what they say
Yes, that is what they want to do, but said it was ok to try this second round of antibiotics first to see if it worked. I didnt realize it could take so long to clear a UTI! Is that normal?? From what I've been reading, it could take weeks to clear one up. Wow. And I guess I didnt realize there were so many types of bacteria that only were susceptible to certain antibiotics. I thought just any antibiotic could wipe out whatever bacteria/infection there was. I guess it makes me feel a little better knowing that my dog's case isnt necessarily uncommon to not clear up quickly.

They do want to wait to do the C&S until after he's been off the meds a week, and on the Rx food for two weeks (we're on week 2 of the food, and have 5 days left of antibiotics, so we should be doing the C&S if it hasnt cleared up sometime near the end of the month).

I'll mention the smell to them. It's not STRONG, but I did notice it a little bit (moreso around the head and neck area) and it was just weird that it smelled kinda like the urine, which is what made me wonder if it could be yeast, as I've read that yeast can give off an odor around the ears and armpits, etc. he has been scratching somewhat a bit, but thats not completely uncommon when he has gotten a few fleas (which we have treated). So thats why I wonder if it could also be yeast. I just hate to have to keep calling them and taking him in and all when I want to do everything at once. But that would mean waiting until the end of the month when he has the C&S done.

Anyway, yes also the pH was 8.0 this time (it was 7 before the first round of antibiotics). Though I hadn't changed his food after the first round. But I will research the supplement thing too. Thanks so much for your response!
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Old 02-13-2016, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by annageckos View Post
My basset has a UTI right now. He also always has smelled like corn chips, for him it has nothing to do with the UTI. His urine does have a strong musky smell which only was noticeable when he got the UTI. We went to the vet last night and they confirmed bacteria and blood in the urine as well as a raised PH. He's on an antibiotic but also chinese herbs. The vet I see does chinese herbs, homeopathy, holistic and allopathic too when needed. If you are using antibiotics you should be using some type of probiotic, I'm using kefir. Don't feed at the same time, he's getting the antibiotic at night and the probiotic in the morning. I also talked to her about using milk thistle, she suggested that with dandelion root and burdock root. I AM NOT saying this is what you should be doing. Only this is my plan right now. I have also started to add ACV with mother to the water. I use to do this all the time but got lax over the years. If you are putting ACV in the water do not use metal bowels. It is important to know the type of bacteria you are dealing with so you know what kind of antibiotic you should be using. I was told that it can take a while to get it under control. We are starting at 10 days and going for a month if needed with the antibiotics. The chinese herbs will be given for a month.

Many things can cause a UTI, poor diet, stress, bacteria getting into the urethra. I agree you need to get your dog onto a better food. In the short term those brands may be cheaper but you end up with more health issues down the line. I don't feed kibble so I am not really up on the better brands. My mom started feeding her dogs Nulo, she got it from Petsmart. She lives paycheck to paycheck and can not afford the 'best', but it didn't look too bad either. Nulo Medal Series Dog Food | Review | Rating | Recalls

Again, I am not recommending you follow the route I am with Shorty. This is what I came up with, with my vet. You do not want to let a UTI go too far, untreated they can be fatal. My sister's cat had chronic UTI's and it's what killed him. She didn't realize he had come down with another one and it went untreated. Good luck, it's something that can take some time to get sorted out.
Yeah I did ask about the ACV but she said she didnt really think it was needed. She didnt indicate it was BAD but just acted hesitant. Which I was a little surprised at because I've read that its good for this type of thing. But then again, she didnt know about the yeast thoughts Ive had either. I will be asking about the probiotic though! Thanks for your advice
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Old 02-13-2016, 01:55 PM
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Thank you so much! I will check these out!
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by annageckos View Post
It reacts with the metal. At least that is what I've always heard. I'm reading conflicting info about it being ok to use with stainless steel. But do not use it with galvanized steel. To be safe I just don't use it with metal bowls at all. Which is not a problem with me because I use ceramic bowls anyway. I have a cat that likes to stand on the lip of the bowl and flips lighter bowls.

And now I see too late that my damned auto correct replaced bowls with bowels. Opps.
Lol - gotta love autocorrect.

I did some Googling on this yesterday after you mentioned it, since the dogs eat out of s/s, and apparently it's fine. In fact, Braggs (big organic ACV brand) has them in huge s/s containers before bottling. I think the idea that it wouldn't work came about because ACV can be used to remove rust from metal, so if you put your ACV into a rusty bottle it would of course 'react' and taint the ACV. I'm pretty sure none of us are feeding our dogs out of old, rusty metal containers.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:41 PM
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Yeah, I saw that Braggs says it's fine to use ss. That is the brand of ACV that I use too. I know when I first started feeding raw everyone said not to use metal bowls. Then on the chicken site people said the same. But I think galvanized steel is more commonly used in livestock. So I always avoided them. But it looks like it's normally ok to use ACV in ss bowls.
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