Somewhat Naturalist vs Pharma Vets

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Somewhat Naturalist vs Pharma Vets

This is a discussion on Somewhat Naturalist vs Pharma Vets within the Dog Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; Does anyone else feel like some--if not most--vets have gone completely big pharma? Recently in the vets office with my dog the vet mentioned that ...

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Old 02-16-2016, 12:37 PM
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Somewhat Naturalist vs Pharma Vets

Does anyone else feel like some--if not most--vets have gone completely big pharma?

Recently in the vets office with my dog the vet mentioned that in the next couple of years I should have her teeth cleaned. She had a bad reaction to anesthetic during her spay (I didn't own her then but its in her records) so I was concerned and asked about that. Even with that he insisted that it was safe and refused really acknowledge the risk.

I asked about how long the cleaning would keep her teeth good for and he said that even if I waited a couple of years, she'd probably be good for a couple more. I asked what I could do to keep her teeth healthy since she is 10 after all.

This was just the tip of the iceberg. Between the extra shots, special chewy pills, shampoos, treats and other things he suggested I would expect that I would not only bankrupt me but cause her to absolutely glow with chemicals.

I do as little shots as possible, use basic anti-flea and tic meds, and use a local food. Is this now considered bad?
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Old 02-16-2016, 04:17 PM
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The teeth push has really been picking up speed in the last few years and will likely continue because of the lengthened and improved quality of life it gives.

I can elaborate more when I'm home later tonight and have a real computer to type since I'm just on my phone right now.
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:04 PM
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It sounds like you may want what is called an integrative veterinarian.

These are DVM's that are board certified, real doctors. But they use and are educated on more than just modern medicine. They are usually in favor of limited vaccines and also incorporate the use of herbs, supplements, acupuncture, and other forms of ancient Chinese medicine. They tend to be very big on feeding natural diet and using diet as a means of preventing and managing common health problems. They aren't about a bunch of woo and homeopathic methods that don't work. The stuff they use WORKS, and they also know when to involve things like chemo, antibiotics, real pain meds etc.

As for the teeth, don't be afraid to get a second opinion. Dental care is extremely important, and poor dental care can lead to other health problems. There are other things you can do to maintain your dogs dental hygiene, like brushing, maintaining a good diet, providing raw meaty bones, using water additives or supplements. A lot of these can deal with current tarter and plaque buildup if it's not too bad. But if she needs a dental cleaning now, then putting it off until it gets worse is not a good idea. The longer you wait, the longer the cleaning will take and the longer she will have to be under to get it done. If she is sensitive to anesthesia, then you want a doctor who acknowledges that and can assure you of what measures they will take to minimize risk.
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:52 PM
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Cindy is 9 and have been asked multiple times for a teeth cleaning. The only reason i refuse to do it is b\c i have heard small dogs going under anesthesia did not make it, especially if they are older and have breathing issues.
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:03 PM
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Cindy is 9 and have been asked multiple times for a teeth cleaning. The only reason i refuse to do it is b\c i have heard small dogs going under anesthesia did not make it, especially if they are older and have breathing issues.
Small dogs are at the same risk as big dogs. The things that increase risks are heart conditions, and just an individual sensitivity or reaction to anesthesia or any of the pre-medications used. You should talk to your vet about specific risks regarding your dog, not listen to random myths from people who don't actually know or have experience.

If her teeth need cleaned, you should definitely have it done. The longer you wait, the harder it will be for her. Dogs suffer when their teeth are bad.
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:13 PM
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Even the vet said that for a 10 year old her teeth are in excellent shame and he acknowledged that they don't need to even be done for a couple years. However, he handed me a fancy flyer and said I could always do it earlier. Which, given my concerns about anesthetic, was ridiculous. I felt like I was catching him in a lie/sales pitch that wasn't in the best interest of my dog. No, my dog did not need this service but he wanted to sell it to me anyway because everyone does it now. NO NO NO!!!!

She eats plenty of raw meat bones (in fact she's chewing on one now) and I check her teeth often for any noticeable build up (there's none)
@TiggerBounce how do I go about finding one of these integrative vets?
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:30 PM
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this person posted a question on here b\c they wanted to hear what others had to say. They also mentioned talking to a vet and obviously did not want to go that route, instead wanted to hear a community response which is why i replied how i felt about dogs going under anesthesia. What i said about dogs who did not make it when going under is not a myth. There are numerous stories out there, one of which who was my neighbors dog that passed away when getting a routine cleaning. please be careful what you say before judging someones response. thank you
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:49 PM
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this person posted a question on here b\c they wanted to hear what others had to say. They also mentioned talking to a vet and obviously did not want to go that route, instead wanted to hear a community response which is why i replied how i felt about dogs going under anesthesia. What i said about dogs who did not make it when going under is not a myth. There are numerous stories out there, one of which who was my neighbors dog that passed away when getting a routine cleaning. please be careful what you say before judging someones response. thank you

Ozzy, I do appreciate you "defending" me. One of the reasons that dogs succumb to anesthetic during a cleaning is because diseased teeth can cause heart trouble. I'm not against cleanings in general, just the total lack of taking my dog's age, past history and current good health into account when making a medical recommendation.

As with humans, dental health is important. Cleaning is a way to do that, but to me it should be a last resort, not the go-to and most certainly not considered routine. Primary because of the anestetic. Human anestistestics are some of the most well-paid and vigiousrly trained dr's in the hospital, even above brain and heart surgeons. The average vet does not have the same expertise and dogs and their physiology vary even more than humans from little tea cup poodles who are barley 3 pounds, to 180lbs great pirneeses to collies with sharp pointy noses to pugs with brasilific snouts.

I am forever battling not getting the newest heart worm pill or completely untested digestible flea and tick medicine. Her biospot works fine for her and has worked for 8 years...I'm NOT changing what works because some pharmaceutical company made a pill.

I also looked into the lyme vaccine but when I asked about the effectiveness rates was completely appalled at the results. They may as well be selling snake oil.
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Old 02-16-2016, 08:18 PM
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this person posted a question on here b\c they wanted to hear what others had to say. They also mentioned talking to a vet and obviously did not want to go that route, instead wanted to hear a community response which is why i replied how i felt about dogs going under anesthesia. What i said about dogs who did not make it when going under is not a myth. There are numerous stories out there, one of which who was my neighbors dog that passed away when getting a routine cleaning. please be careful what you say before judging someones response. thank you
I'm a vet tech and have monitored anesthesia for hundreds of pets. I'm not disagreeing that there is risk. I'm disagreeing that the size of the dog is the biggest factor. It's not. Heart disease is often one of the biggest risk factors, as well as drug reactions or sensitivities to the gas or pre-meds. Age is also a risk. But for the most part, anesthesia IS safe. Very few dogs die under anesthesia, and most who do are KNOWN to be high risk patients. Vets and veterinary technicians don't want their patients dying. We take every precaution we possibly can.

I've had patients who were in for dentals who reacted poorly to anesthesia. One had owners who put off the dental until they were forced to. The elderly dog quit eating because it's mouth was that painful. It was basically either do the dental, or the dog, who was otherwise in good shape and still had many years left, would have to be put to sleep. This could have been avoided by completely if the owners had opted to do a dental cleaning or two when the pet was younger and healthier, before the risk went up so high, before the teeth got so bad. When his heart rate dropped dangerously low, we immediately stopped the dental, got him off anesthesia and on O2 only, reversed the premed and gave him injections to raise the heart rate. He recovered. We tried again with a different anesthetic gas, no premeds, and we were able to save the dogs life.

I'm all for managing dental care at home if it's possible. My dogs have never had dentals because they just don't need to. There is no tarter buildup. It's the biggest favor I did for my oldest, who is now 14 and has developed a heart murmur, the early stages of congestive heart failure.

I just don't encourage putting off dentals if a vet says one is needed. If you're not sure, get a second opinion. If you want to try to up dental hygiene at home to see if that fixes it, that's fine too. But if it doesn't work in a set period of time, a professional cleaning should be seriously considered.
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Old 02-16-2016, 08:23 PM
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Don't get me wrong. I am all for oral hygiene. I do try my best to prevent Cindys teeth from getting tarter build up by brushing them which she dreadfully hates! and i buy her 100% beef, grass fed bully sticks. There is some tarter that i cant remove myself. Can i get her teeth cleaned professionally? Absolutely, yes but i feel the risks outweigh the benefits in her situation.
you also mentioned Lyme vaccine. Lyme disease is very serious in dogs. Cindy got Lyme a few years back and i thought she was not going to make it. I actually did not know she had it until i took her to the vet b\c she was not eating nor moving much. She got prescribed doxycycline and made a full recovery. I personally wouldn't do the vaccine, but that is up to you. You do what you feel is best for your little one.
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