Socialization versus parvo versus being able to control the environment

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Socialization versus parvo versus being able to control the environment

This is a discussion on Socialization versus parvo versus being able to control the environment within the Dog Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; I brought my puppy home last weekend. She is now 10-11 weeks old and has had one round of shots. We were driving almost all ...

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Old 06-01-2017, 02:32 PM
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Socialization versus parvo versus being able to control the environment

I brought my puppy home last weekend. She is now 10-11 weeks old and has had one round of shots. We were driving almost all day to get home which meant we had to stop in a good number of places along the way. Now at home, we don't have a fence in our yard yet, so we can't control that environment. On top of that, this is a critical age for socialization.

How do I balance the fact that I can't control the environment, my puppy needs to get outside, general socialization, and the risk of Parvo?

I don't even know what the risks are! I mean, I took my kids out in public before they were vaccinated. Is it a similar risk? Is it different? Are there certain surfaces such as an ocean beach or forest versus lawn where it's a lower risk?
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:59 AM
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I think I have it figured out. I hate that I had to put her in all kinds of different places in order to get her home, but from here on out, I'm going to keep her at home until she's vaccinated. There is plenty of socialization that can be done in the home. There is so much new stuff around that just like a small baby, she's taking in so much already that additional stimulation isn't really necessary. I can also take her places in the car and carry her around in order to get exposed to more sights and sounds. I'm getting her her second dose of the parvo vaccine next week and then I can get the last one 3 weeks after that. The week after that I'll be traveling and going to a wedding. She will get lots of socialization and exposure to different situations then! And then we have the whole rest of the summer ahead of us. Unfortunately, I don't have a fenced yard but I'm still taking her out in it... I haven't seen dogs wandering around for quite some time and our property isn't as accessible as other yards in our neighborhood. It isn't perfect, but even in the best of situations, people are going to track parvo into their homes. There's no real avoiding it even if you do things perfectly.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:25 AM
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When sprocket wasn't fully vaccinated I still took him places but in a carrier I wanted him to not be scared of everyday things but he's only 12 lbs at 8months old so definitely easier to do than a larger dog
And puppy classes help him to socialize with dogs you know their owners are responsible owners since they can't get into class without starting the shot series


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Old 06-03-2017, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna616 View Post
When sprocket wasn't fully vaccinated I still took him places but in a carrier I wanted him to not be scared of everyday things but he's only 12 lbs at 8months old so definitely easier to do than a larger dog
And puppy classes help him to socialize with dogs you know their owners are responsible owners since they can't get into class without starting the shot series


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I had to do a double take on that name. My sister has a dog named Sprocket!
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Old 06-03-2017, 10:01 PM
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Most puppies that come from bitches that were vaccinated will have protective antibodies until about 12 weeks of age. This is why the latest recommendations for vaccinating puppies is to wait until they are over 12 weeks before vaccinating. Parvo is pretty rare these days. I personally haven't seen a case in several years. Just try to stay away from places that lots of dogs hang like dog parks, public parks, etc. and you should be fine. Good luck
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Old 06-04-2017, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloToYou View Post
I had to do a double take on that name. My sister has a dog named Sprocket!


What kind of dog is your sisters?mines a havanese I think his name suits him perfectly he's so bouncy and fun lol

And I do think it's normal and really responsible to worry about Parvo it does happen often enough to be a worry but I limited sprockets exposure too being worried I didn't do as much as I probably should have and regret it now he's skittish and we had to work on that a lot I do feel if I let him experience life more we could have avoided his nervousness around town
When we started puppy class he was as already 15 weeks old I really wish I had started it earlier he already knew everything they taught it wasn't about that it was about his exposure to other puppies and people he's much much better now but I feel it could have all been avoided if I would have took him out more
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Old 06-04-2017, 10:21 AM
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Not sure what area of the world you all live in but Parvo is certainly NOT rare in southern California... we see cases every week, sometimes 2-3 a day. We definitely recommend vaccinating 6-8 weeks of age (see too many cases of puppies at 8-10 weeks, though unlikely that first vaccine really would have prevented that anyway). So much parvo around here, that assuming ANY maternal antibody protection is not wise (some bitches have never even been vaccinated in this area, ever, so have no immunity whatsoever against parvo). Had a little poodle puppy come in yesterday and died soon after from parvo in which all the rest of the litter had already died, as did the mother. Not a rare situation. I realize that in other less dog-dense areas of the world, parvo could be a 'non-issue'... I have never lived in one of those, though.
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:54 PM
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Where I live, parvo is still a major concern for puppies who aren't sufficiently vaccinated, so IME, it pays to be cautious regarding exposure to potential sources of infection. You might speak with your vet and see what they say as to the prevalence of parvo in your area, as it is true that it is more common in some areas than others, and that might give you a better idea as to the risk for your particular situation. It's been a while since I cared for a young puppy, but I avoided (as best as possible, since I work for a vet and take my personal dog with me) letting the pup interact with dogs whom I didn't know the vaccine history for, as well as dogs which were interacting with a large pool of other dogs. Puppy was carried into stores which were pet friendly (hardware stores, video store, etc), and got to interact with some people that way. I waited until she had had some vaccs (maybe 12 weeks or so) before taking her to petsmart, even carried, just because I've seen people sitting in the vets office waiting while their puppy is receiving outpatient parvo treatment walk over and try to pet someone else's dog/puppy so I don't trust other peoples' hygiene in that sort of scenario. Keep in mind that there doesn't necessarily need to be physical contact between your puppy and other dogs/people in order for her to be receiving "socialization".

There is also a lot you can do at home to desensitize and condition your pup to a variety of handling and activity. Positive exposure to different textures/surfaces, sounds, moving objects, acclimating them to gentle restraint and handling as you would to medicate or examine them.... all these things are important and will make you puppy a pleasure to be around as an adult dog.
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Old 06-04-2017, 03:16 PM
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If the parvo vaccine is so effective why is it that vaccinated puppies get it and die from it? My daughter's roommate's fully vaccinated pup died of parvo at six months old, but her then seven-year-old dog who hadn't been vaccinated in six years was fine, never got sick at all. It seems the best place to catch it is the vet's office from the recently vaccinated or from the vaccine itself, so that's where I would avoid. If you go to areas of high dog traffic, you are not likely to encounter many unvaccinated dogs with parvo, your dog is going to encounter shedded vaccine virus, so it's the recently vaccinated dogs I would stay away from.

My dog (now almost 7) has never been vaccinated for parvo and has never contracted it, and he wasn't kept isolated, and I know many, many people that naturally rear dogs that have generations upon generations of vaccine-free dogs who have never contracted parvo either, these are not flukes. Some of these breeders and owners titer test their unvaccinated dogs and they show immunity, so it is not true that an unvaccinated dam will not pass on immunity to their pups. Besides as parvo is ubiquitous in the environment (likely from vaccines), how could a non-vaccinated dog never have come into contact with it? With naturally derived immunity the response will probably be more robust because it involved both the innate and humoral arms of the immune system. Adjuvanted vaccines like parvo only engage the humoral arm of the immune system, as has been shown by scientific research in human vaccines.

An example, mothers who have had natural measles infection are able to provide strong effective passive immunity to their babies for up to two years, whereas a vaccinated mother barely if at all provides any immunity, and the measles vaccine is a live attenuated vaccine which does engage the TH1 arm (cell-mediated immunity), for a while anyway, but immunity wears off in 10 to 20 years, unlike natural immunity which lasts a lifetime.

A healthy, optimally functioning immune system as nature intended is the way to protect puppies. Vaccinating a puppy as young as 6 or 8 weeks that still has passive maternal immunity which will neutralize the vaccine antigens, is not only pointless it is potentially dangerous because vaccines are not without risk.

Read what canine immunologist Dr Ron Schultz has to say on the matter, one (vaccine at around 16 weeks when maternal antibodies have gone) then done for the life of the dog.

You could always titer test for antibody response to the vaccine if you are concerned. That is what Dr Schultz recommends, one round of puppy vaccines and two weeks later check titers to see if they have taken. Please bear in mind there is such a thing as a non-responder (estimated to be approx 10% of the population) that do not seroconvert, so it doesn't matter how many times you vaccinate these dogs, they aren't going to show any antibodies to the vaccine antigens. But that doesn't mean they are going to fall prey to every vaccine-targeted disease out there. In humans, there is an immune deficiency issue called agammaglobulinemia where a person cannot make antibodies, and these people recover from measles just as well as normal people, so antibodies are not the definitive measure of immunity.

There is a protocol for helping puppies acquire natural immunity that is proving to be highly effective and safe which provides for very short exposures over a period of a few weeks and then titer testing. Some owners choose to utilize homeopathic nosodes and others do not bother while doing the protocol. I have not heard of any puppy falling ill and dying from parvo during these controlled exposures.
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:26 PM
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Here's an article that is pretty well balanced. https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/ne...t-21576-1.html
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