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unescapable collar/harness??

3K views 9 replies 7 participants last post by  adamsNancy 
#1 ·
Hello, can't believe I've been a Horseforum member for so long & only just discovered this dogforum is linked to it! I hope this is as good & full of good people as Horseforum is!

Experienced dog owner, trainer, etc, but have a problem with my current young dogs, that I've never had before... They manage to get out of a collar or harness(harness esp easy) if left tied alone!

Of course, I don't want to do the collar super tight, but they are wolfhound/greyhound x's, so have reasonably small, fine heads for the size of their necks! Therefore even with the collars pretty firm, they can wriggle out of them!

All I can think of is a choke collar, but am loath to use this for tying dogs unattended(altho if I do, I will definitely not leave them unwatched to begin with). Does anyone know of other effective options? Oh & being big dogs, it's also got to be something reasonably unbreakable(or unchewable - they've eaten thru non-chain leads to escape too!).
 
#2 ·
Hi and welcome!

Just a quick note- we are a force free forum so advocating the use of aversive tools (even choke collars) is not permitted.

Personally, I would go on Etsy and find some collars that you like. Email the shop owner and see what they recommend. Those collars are (or can easily be) custom made so you may have better luck than using a ready made collar.
 
#3 ·
How long are they tied alone? Chewing is usually a sign of boredom.

That aside, have you tried Martingales?
 
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#4 ·
I wouldn't tie a dog out on a choke or even martingale collar- too much risk of them getting tangled (even around their legs) and injuring themselves, plus just the weight of a tie out chain for a dog that size is going to exert constant restriction on their throat. You might be able to get by with a snug flat collar with a big O-ring on it for the tie out to slide around the collar, rather than the whole collar sliding. With their breeds though, guessing their neck and head are similar sized, so that may still not work. You could also use a flat collar in conjunction with either a slip or martingale collar, so that the tightening action of the second collar only comes into play if they try to pull the collar over their head. You would put the "action" collar at the base of the neck, snug flat collar above (on the neck) that, and hook the tie out snap to both. I would not leave them out unsupervised with this, as dogs that have become used to slipping their collars can be very insistent on doing it, and you don't want them to get into a tight spot without you being able to help.

Blue collar is a martingale, leather collar is flat. I used this for (supervised) tie out of my dog who was a pro collar slipper and significant liability to have get loose- never had an issue.


The other alternative, and maybe the best if you want to have them out alone, would be the Ruffwear Webmaster harness, or a similar harness, that has the 3rd strap around the "waist" of the dog to make it hard for them to back out. I've found that most escape artist dogs get out of harnesses easily, but these seem to foil a fair number of those dogs. If tying out with a harness, I would use an overhead "trolley" system rather than a ground tie out, and beef up the hardware, as the dog may be able to put more force behind a bolting attempt than with a collar. They might chew it off themselves or each other.

Trolley system looks like this: http://www.culvercitypd.org/aso/TrolleyTethering.jpg
and if your dogs chew cable, you could use chain as the part from the runner to the dog.

Web Master harness
 
#5 ·
Thanks so much, Busannie especially! And others.

I have never heard of a martingale(for dogs), but that sounds like it would be effective for what I want, without the choking danger. Looks like you could adjust it to become tight enough when pulled, but not too tight, if the dog really fought it. Not quite sure how it makes it safer with the flat collar on top tho(but that pic actually looks like my Houdini girl!). Care to explain a bit further? Or maybe a diagram??

And I've been racking my brain trying to think of a harness modification they couldn't back out of - looks like those Ruff ones might be just the ticket... altho it looks like the waist strap could interfere with my boy's... bit if it weren't carefully fitted. And I don't like to leave my dogs tied alone for long periods, but I do use what you call the 'trolley system'(I know it as a 'high line') both with dogs & horses when necessary - safer & they can move around a bit too.

I probably should have explained further, for other replies... Aspen, I know this is a 'force free' forum(very happy to find). Far from 'advocating', I said I was loath to use a choker, it's just it was the only thing I could think of at the time that would work. And as far as horrid tools, I don't personally thing of one of those as an 'even' ;-)

And Shandula, yeah, they're NOT tied alone at all... because they escape the second I get too far away & chase me! It's more 'separation anxious', definitely not boredom. I do not plan on leaving them tied for long periods alone at all, but it would be nice to be able to tie them outside a shop & go in, without risk of them getting loose... or like last week, tie them at the side of the oval where my daughters play footy & be able to walk onto the oval at half time without them following me! :)

And re separation anxiety, these are still (older)pups, both rescues, and one especially is quite stressy. The poor girl was dumped at a pound with her sister when she was only about 5 weeks old. She was there for 2 months before the shire allowed her to be adopted. The rescue org spayed her at 16 weeks & I got her right after that. Didn't like the idea of 'cold turkey' without training, but thought it best to keep her in a crate when not supervised, for a week or 2 after the spay... but she stressed so much & scrabbled, the poor girl had bloody paws and lost a canine tooth trying to break out!

So... we've been doing lots of 'stay' training, and she's pretty good at it(given stop-start training due to other issues), but gets too anxious if I'm out of sight or too far away & starts stressing/fighting if she's tied or held.
 
#6 ·
The wide martingale collar is the preferred collar for greyhounds. Those teeny little heads make it super easy to slip regular collars!

 
#7 ·
It's hard to describe, but when paired, the two collars each counteract the problem with the other. The flat collar is the best tie out collar because it's non-restrictive, but dogs with beefy necks and tiny heads can slip out. The martingale is difficult to slip out of, but would constantly be in the tightened position with the weight of a tie out hanging on it, and might tighten to the point of injury if pulled on hard enough (like if the dog "pings" the end of the tie out chasing a bunny). Most martingales have a little more tightening action than just to make the collar snug, to ensure that a struggling dog can't back out, so there is still some choking risk, though not as much as with a full slip collar. You could probably have someone make you one with a smaller loop- less tightening action, but it is still likely to be "engaged" quite a bit for a dog on a tie out.

I figured it would be easier to show you the difference, so made a short video of my long-suffering dog demonstrating both the martingale collar alone, as well as with a very loose flat collar. In real life, I would make the flat collar more snug, but I fumbled with the leash snap enough, and wanted to show how the martingale prevents the collar from slipping over the head as it otherwise would. The martingale has a pretty big loop, so lots of possible tightening action, but clipping the leash to both collars limits that possibility until the flat collar begins to get over the head. You can see that the martingale gets quite snug (from fitting my whole hand under while "inactive" to barely 1 finger when pulled on lightly) when by itself, but stays rather loose most of the time when paired with the flat collar, and never gets as tight as when used alone. If the flat collar were tighter, the martingale would probably tighten even less frequently, but still if the flat collar started to come off.

I had to distract with food pretty freely, as my dog is both slightly afraid of our kitchen and attentive to leash tugs, so kept looking up and obscuring the collars with his ears :eek:

https://youtu.be/clPb97ll0z0
 
#8 ·
I use a martingale on my feral-like dog, Jaya. She has learned to slip collars and harnesses in her life. When I first got her, I had her outside in my enclosed back yard, on a tie down, and a snug regular collar.

A noise startled her and in like 1 second, she had brought her front foot up, snagged the collar and pulled it over her head. It took me 3 days and a cowboy's help to catch her. I had been told by the rescue group that they also had issues with her getting out of harnesses and collars - they had her on a choke chain when I got her, but I never liked choke chains and had bought her a regular collar.

My friend, the cowboy also trains ranch dogs, and he told me about the martingale and I bought one for Jaya.

If fitted correctly, the collar shouldn't restrict the airflow even when at full 'closure' and that can be adjusted a bit too so the collar will not slip over the head but allowing a tiny bit more 'space' for comfort when the two ends of the collar are brought together. This is how I have Jaya's collar and she's never been able to pull it off, although she tried a few times.

I rarely have to tie Jaya up now, since she has learned to come when I call, but it's nice to have that collar for like when I take her to the vet.

I am always a little bit worried that she could escape me like when I'm getting her in or out of a car, or before getting into the vets office or something. I don't think I wold be able to her to come back to the car and get in, nor let me approach her. It would probably take a number of cowboys on their horses to catch her if that ever happened. :p

I do feel a lot more confident though after getting that martingale and seeing her fail a few times in trying flip it off her neck or in fighting against the leash and trying to whip/slip it off her neck in her panic attacks.

This is Jaya's martingale collar:



Stormy
 
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