My first visit with the shiba pups

superbrecht · 08-17-2010, 09:52 AM

Hi peepz!
Today I made my first visit to the kennel where I'm about to buy a shiba inu pup.
I allready talked to the breeders before for some info but now I got to see the pups. There's 3 of them... 1 female and 2 males.
There were about 8 mature dogs, 2 of them were outside and the rest were in cages.
The cages seemed a bit small to me, but that might just be me.
Even my 2 rabbits have a 6 square meter area to walk around.
Some of the dogs were silent but interrested to see the visitor (me^^)
And a few were barking. One of them seemed kind of angry but the rest just seemed to try to get attention.
The keeper of the kennel said the pups can leave their mom at 7 weeks.
But isn't it best to wait 10 weeks?
The breeders give the pups allready a toy to take with you when you come aand get them. So that they have something with the scent of the place where they were born.
Well... I'm happy with the kennel, just the fact that they have to leave at 7 weeks worries me and the kind of small cages they adults were in.
Is it normal thet kennels keep their dogs in such small places most of the time?

grtz!

**kmes** · 08-17-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superbrecht

Well... I'm happy with the kennel, just the fact that they have to leave at 7 weeks worries me and the kind of small cages they adults were in.
Is it normal thet kennels keep their dogs in such small places most of the time?
grtz!

Reputable breeders will want their pups to stay until atleast 9-10 weeks.
Also, they do not keep their dogs in small cages most of the time. If the breeder does actually keep his/her dogs in small cages all of or even most of the time, then I would have huge concerns!

Did you ask about titles on the parents? What about titles on other dogs in your perspective pup's pedigree?
Also what about health and genetic testing? What tests have been done and what were the results? This does not mean a health certificate from a vet. You should see tests like OFA (hips and elbows).

If the pup's parents have not earned titles and have not passed the appropriate heath tests then I would be looking for a different breeder!
And even if the parents were titled and passed health tests, I would still walk away if I did not like the living conditions of the parents and any other dogs owned by the breeder!

GreatDaneMom · 08-17-2010, 03:40 PM

im echoing kmes here..... im not liking the sounds of that.... also i posted in the other thread you had made what you should see in the health testing and contract department for these dogs. seeing as how you made this thread already, makes me think either you didnt read it, or you ignored it. so im going to just quote it in here. if you didnt read it, here it is... if you just ignored it well.. im sure other people here will echo what i say here and really agree with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatDaneMom

make sure your dogs parents have had the proper health testing as well. their hips should have been OFA certified, screened for genetic health issues, etc. and ask for proof of this all. if you dont, you could end up with a lot of money in vet bills. especially with hip dysplasia. here is a good list from an akita site on what to have before you buy a puppy....

Get the Paper Work
Do not purchase an Akita unless you have:
1. At least a three generation pedigree on both parents.

2. Hip certification (OFA-USA or OVC-Canada) on both parents (grandparents too if available). This test is done only once in a dog’s life.

3. Eye certification (CERF-Canine Eye Registry Foundation) on both parents (grandparents too if available). This test must be performed yearly or before each breeding, so check the dates.

4. Complete thyroid panel results (6 tests) on both parents proving both to be normal to high-normal. Low-normal is not acceptable for breeding Akitas. This test also must be performed yearly or before each breeding, so check the dates. An Akita on thyroid medication is not suitable for breeding.

5. Written guarantee on the health of the puppy for a specific period of time (usually 2 years) which does not ask that you euthanize the dog in order to receive a replacement puppy or a refund.

6. Registration of your puppy with the American Kennel Club or Canadian Kennel Club within 6 months of your purchase. It is illegal for a breeder to withhold or charge for this.

7. A written non-breeding agreement which the breeder will register free of charge with the AKC or CKC. This can be lifted only by the breeder.

8. Results of any other tests performed on either parent. If a breeder cannot or refuses to supply any of these, then you don’t want that puppy. Go elsewhere. If a breeder pushes you into a purchase or doesn’ t seem to be knowledgeable or supportive, then you’ll want to keep shopping.

here is the direct link to the page if you want to read everything else they have too. Akita Network - Breed Information
i cant stress how important it is to go to a reliable reputable breeder and be provided with all these things listed above.

Mikey · 08-18-2010, 01:33 AM

Ditto that-no need to rush in...honestly if they are letting them go at seven weeks-that's a red flag, I'd turn around and find someone else.

Shiba's are interesting dogs, that can be quite aloof. Pair that with the behavior and health problems-you are more then likey to get with a pup you take home at seven weeks (too young...)-and you are very well going to have a problem on your hands...a very expensive (shiba's here are 1400$) problem dog.

So look elsewhere please!!!

superbrecht · 08-18-2010, 01:45 AM

This is the link to the breeders website:
Nieuwe pagina 1
It's in dutch however.
To see the dad and it's titles click "onze honden" which means "our dogs"
Then click the top one "Antei of Sakkasow"
That's the dad. (It's a shiba by the way... My final choise has turned into this breed)
Under the pictures is "Stamboom" and "Resultaten"
"Stamboom" is where you can see the pedigree
"Resultaten" are the titles the dad has.
I forgot what the name of the mother was.
On every other dog you just have to click the same links "stamboom" or "resultaten" to see either their titles or pedigree

Well there were 2 dogs outside... apparantly the dogs got to go outside in turns... some of them alone (like their amerikan akita) and some of them in pairs or whatever works without having trouble.
So all the dogs get outside every day (that's what they've said)
They used to be farmers (which can be true, their house is in a zone for agriculture) but sold their land (which can also be true as they're about 60 yeas old) so all they have left now was a medicre garden.
All the dogs looked well fed. They were friendy towards me as a visitor and none seemed to have any weird behaviour.

I kind of liked the living conditions... You saw they loved their dogs.
One of the dogs was 15 years old and at the end of it's days... you could see it was very tired and old... it's one of their black Shibas but I don't know which one and you could see that the woman had pain from seeing her dog like that. but I don't like crates...
I mean... in the wild a dog would have a large territory but when with humans some peepz put them into crates, even if it's for a few houres.
It's definitaly not a breeding factory... I just don't like those crates.

I have read somewhere thet they take dogs away from their mom at 7 weeks if they're meanth to work like guiding blind people or w/e.
So it can't be that bad for the pup can't it?

Mikey · 08-18-2010, 01:50 AM

I wouldn't be telling you to run away from the dog you have you heart set on if it weren't.

It makes the breeders more money by letting them go younger, and it makes them have less work.

There is NO good reason to let them go at seven weeks-and healthwise and behaviorwise it's VERY bad.

Here Puppy Biting! -Video included
You can read about a user called 'myvalentine' who was super duper excited to get her puppy from the breeder. She didn't listen when we warned her that he could get very sick, she didn't listen when we told her he could have behavioral problems.

You can read about some in that thread, and follow her other threads by clicking on the user and looking for her other threads.

The dog was sick-coccidia and giardia if I recall correctly.
He was aggressive-and mauled her face
and she ended up having to rehome him.

superbrecht · 08-18-2010, 02:06 AM

http://www.akitaclub.be/Breeders.aspx
this is a link to a website from belgium... it's in english so you should be able to read it.

They're in the list of responsible breeders.
It might be thet they just have to pay a fee to get on that list... I don't know

There's also an institution in Belgium from the gouvernment that stands in for the retention of all dog breeds. Their kennel has been checked by that institution and seems to be ok.
I don't know on what they check however...

superbrecht · 08-18-2010, 02:15 AM

I haven't read your reply before I posted the last post

Well I guess I better look elsewhere then.
Kind of a bummer though... the mom and dad were very friendly and good looking dogs.

WHat if they agree to keep the dog for 10 weeks?
Or is it just a bad sign for more bad stuff

Is there a vaccination or something else that the pups should have between 7 and 10 weeks??

GreatDaneMom · 08-18-2010, 03:15 PM

most pups have their first set of vacc. at 6wks old.

mom and dad being friendly and good looking is one thing, but the health behind it all means a ton too. without the proper health testing done you could end up with a very very expencive pup/dog. plus you dont want to purchase from an unethical breeder... its just giving them money to do it again.