Advice about selling pups who have hernias?

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Advice about selling pups who have hernias?

This is a discussion on Advice about selling pups who have hernias? within the Puppy Help forums, part of the Dog Training and Behavior category; Hi guys, I'm new here from the horse forum and could really use some advice about my situation. We have a set of 7 weimaraner ...

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Old 02-29-2012, 05:15 PM
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Advice about selling pups who have hernias?

Hi guys, I'm new here from the horse forum and could really use some advice about my situation. We have a set of 7 weimaraner puppies out of a first time momma who ate the umbilical cord down to the skin. Well, we now have 5 out of 7 of the pups who have umbilical hernias.

The vet says that if the hernias are small, it will correct itself over time. We have one pup who has about a quarter size bump after he has been fed, the others are a lot smaller. If you feel the tear through the skin, the hernias aren't as big as the fingertip on my pinky and they are 5 1/2 weeks old.

We have put a LOT of money and time into these puppies and I am afraid no one is going to want them. They will be AKC papered. We are selling them for $425 each. How should I handle this situation? Should I drop the price to accomodate a possible surgery to fix it? It isn't that expensive, my vet charges $50-65 a dog, less if they do it while spaying/neutering.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:23 PM
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That's a hard one. I'd be totally open with all the buyers. Females who are to be spayed, can have the hernia repaired with the spay.

I'd either discount the puppies, or offer to pay for the hernia repair if it is indeed needed at maturity. Be ready for some vets to charge more than your vet. That price sounds very low to me, by the time one does general anesthesia and such.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:28 PM
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Yes, definitely cover the cost of the surgery, as they don't always heal over time. Also, talk with prospective owners about complications of surgery, and what will happen if there are any. Raising pups and breeding dogs can get very expensive.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:37 PM
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We found that out, lol. We are just getting into the breeding and are planning on having a couple more litters from or girl before spaying her. Will a hernia put prospective buyers off?
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:25 PM
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Personally, I don't offer a discount on my puppies that have small umbilical hernias. The same time/work (and love) has gone into the puppies. I sell my puppies for $600.00. This includes their CKC registration, vaccines (first and sometimes second sets) and they have been dewormed 3-4times, tails docked and dewclaws removed. I spend hours everyday, playing and training and enjoying them.

I tell all prospective puppy buyers that they are there. As long as we are only talking about small UH, the chances of them living a normal life are 99%. Most pet owners have them removed during the spay and neuter for a cost of $50.00. Some hernia's are reducable, and I will constantly 'push' them back in, and often by time they head to new homes 9-12wks they aren't there anymore. I have shown and done very well with dogs that have UH. My breed is smooth fox terriers and I have been breeding for 10yrs and have had maybe 10 UH puppies. Never had anyone not buy a puppy because of one.

PS I have shown Weims with hernia's and kicked butt, so I doubt it will be an issue. Be up front tell the prospective people its there, and if they want it can be fixed at the time of spay and neuter.

As an aside, I am hoping you had the parents health tested? Weims can have some health issues, and I am sure the puppy owners would rather have copies of the parents health tests, and know that you are trying to breed healthy dogs.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:40 PM
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Do they have to fixed if they are so small? I'd love any information to be able to tell the prospective owners. I also read they are reducable, so when I mess with them, I do the same thing with the UH's.

I don't have any health certificates on my two family dogs other than my vet clearing them. What should we test for? Sorry, we didn't know there was so much in it until we had some puppies here!
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:52 PM
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Ok, before you breed them again you should get clearances done. For my terriers ( and I DO A lot more then most SFT breeders) is hips, elbows, patellas (knee caps) heart, eyes and thyroid. You should look on the Weimaraner club of america's website to see what health issues they have. Off the top of my head, hips, elbows, heart, eyes and thyroid is what I would test for. All tests get sent to OFA - your vet should be able to help you with this. Please please pleas get these clearances before breeding next time. You can't tell if they have issues unless you test. Some of my friends breed weims, and they are fully health testes, show and hunt quality dogs.

I have dogs here with small UH that don't get fixed, it doesn't affect them, they show, do agility, hunt, be fantabulous pets and live normal lives.

Leave the choice up to the new owners and their vet. You aren't charging an arm and a leg, so it shouldn't be hard for them to afford the surgery while spaying and neutering their pets. Are you selling them as pets - to be spayed and neutered?
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:53 PM
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Hi,
You may or may not have a harder time selling these pups. Either way, it is your responsibility to inform potential buyers about the hernias, their risks, and costs to repair, so that's good you are looking for info. I agree with Instyle that you really need to have health clearances done on both your weims before you consider breeding them again, and they should be doing something besides just being pets.

As per the umb. hernias, have you checked with your female's parents' owners, as well as the stud's parents' owners, owners of offspring of the stud, siblings of each dog in each generation of the pedigree, etc to see if any have had umb. hernias? If not, you should, and if any give the same reason that you have (the dam pulling the cord), do not ignore the incidence- mark it as affected on the pedigree. Hernias can be inherited, so if you check with as many of the dogs related to your dog as possible, you might just see a pattern. (If you don't know what know what kind of pattern to look for, do some research on basic genetics, which is the minimal any person breeding animals show be familiar with.) In my experience, breeders may just say that it was the dam's fault either because they haven't looked into the bloodlines thoroughly or because they are trying to cover up an inherited condition- which is why I wouldn't ignore any hernias in your litter's family that the owner/breeder tells you it was the dam's fault. Also, don't ignore any of them saying that they only had "delayed closures," which is essentially the same thing, just semantics.... Some think it is a such a minor thing that it doesn't need to be bred against, but anything that often requires surgery and poses a health risk to a pup, IMHO, is something that should be bred against.... Sure, it's not as major as hip dysplasia but I personally think it should be considered....

Sometimes, yes, a mom can chew them off too roughly/aggressively damaging the umb. ring, but it's a hard one to prove unless you have a solid understanding of the health conditions that run in your female's bloodlines. I'd hesitate before breeding her again, until you have checked into this, especially because so many of the puppies were affected. Sure, these may not have been due to genetics, but why take the risk, since they can be hazardous to the pups and cost extra money....

Also, keep you eye out for undescended testicles (cryptorchidism); this is a condition often linked to inherited umb. hernias. It could serve as another clue.

Personally, I would discount the cost of the surgery from the pups or keep the pups until they are 12-16 weeks to have the surgery completed yourself. I haven't seen any that closed up on their own when they were the size you mentioned. I second Tess that the surgery cost your vet quoted seems pretty low; I would figure at least $120/pup.

Also, unless you look really hard and still find that there is no pattern of umb. hernias in your female's and the stud's families, I'd recommend you send these pups to their families with spay/neuter contracts. I wouldn't consider them breeding quality- some don't mind, I do. (Personally, I'd hesitate anyways because of the sheer number affected in your litter.) On second or third thought , I wouldn't recommend sending these guys home with anything other limited registration and spay/neuter contracts, unless someone on your waiting list has actual, concrete plans to show or otherwise compete (ie field trials).

Lastly, any pups with repaired hernias will not be able to be shown, either, although an unrepaired umb. hernia is typically not cause for disqualification.

Sorry for the info/opinion overload; I don't know what you have or haven't done in prep for this litter.

Last edited by crock; 02-29-2012 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:08 PM
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Well, obviously there is a load of stuff we didn't know. The vet said we might run into that problem when he saw the pups at three days old due to Mom chewing the cord down to the skin.

We will most definitely test for everything a weim can have problems with later down the road. We aren't planning on breeding this year and may never breed them again. It was an aweful amount of work even though we love the puppies!

I'm going to talk with the vet on Monday and see what he says. The holes on 3 of the pups who have it are very small, the other two are a little larger. We are most likely going to sell the two pups who are completely ok for regular and the others for $300 each if the vet thinks they will not heal completely on their own.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:10 PM
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Great post crock!!
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