AKC and new breeds

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AKC and new breeds

This is a discussion on AKC and new breeds within the General Dog Discussion forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Dogs category; Aren't all dog breeds mutts? They may have been created 100's of years ago but they were all mutts at one time. What is the ...

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Old 08-07-2013, 06:49 AM
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AKC and new breeds

Aren't all dog breeds mutts? They may have been created 100's of years ago but they were all mutts at one time.

What is the AKC's criteria for recognizing a "new" breed and how many generations does it take to establish a "standard"?

How many breeds have become extinct? I've heard the Havanese was almost gone but was revived by Cuban refugees in the 50's.

Just some random thoughts from the AKC Chiweenies thread.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:12 AM
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Good question, though I wouldn't limit recognition to just AKC registration (but I understand the point of the question as how are new breeds established and recognized by registries).

My understanding is that new breeds are developed by determining which traits are desired in the new breed and then selectively breeding for them. So, if I want a dog that can swim, track, and sprint, and with a specific body type suited for such tasks, I might mix a lab, bloodhound, and greyhound. Then, test the puppies to see which are best at the desired tasks, breed them, and continue to test and refine until I get consistent offspring. Of course, there is much more to it to ensure health, temperament, genetic diversity, etc.

I have read that there needs to be an established standard and the dogs should "breed true" which I think means that the offspring of new breed female and new breed male should be consistent with the new breed standard.

Kennel clubs, I believe, have their own criteria for recognizing breeds. For example, I've read that AKC requires an established breed club, standards, and a certain level of interest to recognize a breed. They don't recognize some breeds that are common in other areas of the world because there isn't a large enough presence in the US. The AKC has Miscellaneous and Foundation Stock Service groups for breeds seeking (I think) full recognition. This page has some information on AKC recognition process.

But really, I just posted because I'm interested in the answers.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:36 AM
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Dog breeds are not mutts. A 'breed' of any type of living creature is a strain which has been bred for certain characteristics and traits. They breed true.

Crossbred animals are a mix of two or more breeds.

To me mutt = animal of unknown heritage.

All breeds did not start out as crosses... I mean... they did. Sort of. It wasn't like a 'chiweenie'. They did not take two breeds and mix in most the cases. The dogs were types or landraces that were crossed (not 50/50) usually over time. Many dog breeds are fairly old and there are some that were pariah type dogs that were made more through natural selection than anything man-made.

The AKC is far from the end all be all of purebred dogs. They recognize a fraction of the dogs in the world. The FCI recognizes many more and there are breeds that are only registered through breed specific registries (australian koolie or english shepherd comes to mind). You won't see them in the kennel club show ring but they're still strains that are bred true for characteristics. There are other breeds that have no registry at all.

For dogs to get into the AKC there needs to be a breed club, a breed standard, and enough people/dogs in the US that want in to the AKC. I'm sure there's more to it than that.

I have no problem with cross breeding but it's not the same thing.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:04 AM
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^Ditto!

Just wanted to add that many of the "new breeds" recognized by the AKC over the last decade or so really aren't new at all.

Some were simply newer to the US or a rare breed. They finally achieved the requirements (described above by Laurelin) to become a recognized AKC breed.
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Last edited by kmes; 08-07-2013 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:31 AM
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Good info, thanks.
As far as mutt's, what I mean is many people are referring to hybrids as mutts. Like a Labradoodle; lab+poodle. The Australian Shepherd it is said comes from the Basque region of Spain/France many years ago and once in America was probably mixed with a Collie to become the Aussie we know today. Way back then it was considered a hybrid I suppose but is now a recognized breed.

I was just wondering about the process and what it will take for a Chiwenie or Labradoodle to be elevated to the pure bred status rather than Hybrid label.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:09 PM
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My understanding is that most labradoodle and chiweenie breeders are continuously breeding lab x poodle or chihuahua x ?dachshund to create doodle or chiweenie puppies. Breeding a labradoodle to a labradoodle doesn't create puppies with consistent structure, etc. Some breeders are working towards creating a standard and breeding towards a goal of creating a new breed, but just as many are breeding for profit.

There is a sticky about designer dogs in the Dog Breeds subsection that might answer some of your questions.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:10 PM
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Aussies are not just collie mixed with the basque shepherd dogs. There's a lot more that has gone on there than a simple cross. The collie family started mostly as a landrace and has since been defined into separate breeds through breeding for sheepdog trials (border collies), show (collies), or crossing with other breeds to create something different in the land the breed has been brought to (aussies or the australian breeds are good examples)

Theoretically you could make a chiweenie or any cross breed into a new breed IF you standardize it in some way and work on it breeding true. There are people working on this with at least the labradoodle and the cockapoo. Both those have breed clubs. Will they ever be breeds instead of breeds in development? Depends on what happens. But you can't continuously breed a chihuahua to a dachshund and call that a breed.

There are modern breeds in development. The alaskan klle kai is a relatively new breed as is the silken windhound.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:59 PM
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You have to have consistent and selective breeding to form a breed. It's not just taking two dogs and mixing them, like a lab + poodle = labradoodle. Labradoodle isn't a breed. It's also not taking two labradoodles and breeding THOSE for several generations.

To form a breed, you have to have a purpose in mind. You have to be striving for something, selecting for form and for temperament. Choosing to breed some pups and not others. You have to have a goal. Some of the older breeds didn't start off with somebody consciously forming a breed. Instead it was unintentional, but there was still purpose and there was still selection. For dogs to function as guardians of livestock, they couldn't have any drive. Dogs that threatened livestock got killed. Dogs that had desired traits were often favored.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:13 PM
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new breeds must go throughout 5 yrs of record keeping before AKC or any other national kennel clubs will even look at registering them as a breed.
I have breed by livestock & it is not done over night it takes at least 4 generation to breed true & 6 before you stop any throw backs.
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