Some insight on collars?

TashaHope

Ok, so I was talking to this one guy. He has a male chow chow. Now he has a choke chain on his guy and when he found out Tasha had an e-collar (stimulation collar) he started getting all worked up about it!

Tasha is a great dog (way better than his IMO); I've only needed it a few times with her. She doesn't shy away, she doesn't keep her tail tucked between her legs, she's not afraid or fearful of it in the least. I can't see how it's negatively affected her in a single way. Of course, I read/watched everything I could before I used it as I've seen dogs messed up from an ignorant owner and I didn't want to be one of them, nor her a messed up dog. I'd practiced my timing too and I've never been off on my timing when she's had her collar on... maybe with her clicker training , but not her collar.

So here's my question: How's an e-collar any worse than a choke chain or pinch collar (all of them used correctly of course)?

I know obviously some tools may be preferred over others for certain tasks, but honestly, just in general, how's it worse? I think I'd feel worse putting a choke chain or pinch collar on Tasha as it's soo much more personal.

For example:
A dog keeps knocking over the garbage (I know there are less aversive methods, but that's not my point). So now the owner has the pinch collar on and he says no, when the dog starts messing with it he's corrected. This has become (IMO) a very personal lesson. The correction clearly came from the owner.
BUT, if you put an e-collar on the dog and tell him no, and when the dog messes with it correct him. This seems alot less personal. The owner can be further away, or even not in the same room if he chooses. The "no" was more of a warning like a mother telling a child not to touch a hot burner. If the child touches it it's not the mother who corrected the child, it was the burner. The child learns from this and learns to listen to the advice next time.

I'm done ranting now, any insight would be cool I guess.

Criosphynx

You are 100% spot on with this. Except for one thing...if you are in the room at all...the dog still associates you with the correction.

I don't advocate corrections, but if you do use them then yes it is imperative the dog does NOT make the handler/correction association. Every time I have stim'd (can count on one hand) a dog I have not been in view.

Pinch collars have a place, though I think there are better ways... I don't believe choke collars do any good.... and e collars, in very few precise instances have their merits...either way I would not stim a dog for trash digging or ever stim a dog that could see me

borzoimom

An E collar is a forced compliance- ( I don't like them) and a choker is a voluntary difiance. Big difference.
" No " is too vague a command.
Tell me- why are you using a E collar?

Criosphynx

if you are poping the choke its not voluntary anymore than an e collar.

I use e collar to create distinct permanent avoidance. I don't find it very useful for anything else...and very dangerous for most things...especially if used wrong.

borzoimom

agreed- and I have no cause to use a e collar, and never use a choke.
Who told you to use a e collar if I may ask and for what? It doesn't teach avoidance of a behavior- all it does is add fear. While fear works on the short side the fact is- the dog has not learned. Teaching passive avoidiance is better..
And yes- popping a choke can do as much damage to the bones the neck.. I just do not know what to say here.. I just want to know what ( withholds thoughts in name) "trainer" told you to use one.

Criosphynx

maybe Iam misunderstanding...but burning your hand on a hot stove badly... ONCE... the second I touch it doesn't make me afraid of the stove, it makes me avoid it touching the burner with my hand.

I can be in the room with the stove and not be afraid of it. Because it was very clear that my touching the burner made the pain happen.

if your timing is off, and your correction not hard enough, then yes I agree the animal/human can be made afriad of the whole object or the entire room, or the people in it.Not thier action...Which is why I never recommend a novice use a collar.

borzoimom

yes and it takes training to handle this type of thing properly. That is why I am asking.

TashaHope

No trainer told me to use it.

Article on e collars is one reason I used it. I posted earlier on that.

And another reason is when she had her stitches from her spay in. She pretty much left them alone except for the very first day we brought her home.

TashaHope

I think a choker is a forced compliance too?
Yes, I agree about the no, but it was an example.

Hehe, I know it was an example. I couldn't really think of any. Too worked up. :P

Criosphynx

Oh I know, I was just sayin

I read your reasons in the other thread, since this thread isn't you asking to discuss it I wont go into it. You seem to have a decent understanding of learning theory so Iam not as alarmed as I would be with another poster perhaps