10-19-2009, 10:30 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 9,870
| oh goodness give me a few days to read through LOL | 
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10-19-2009, 10:32 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 7,579
| You should make this a sticky!! Thanks for the resources!!  | |
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10-19-2009, 10:39 PM
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#4 | | Dog Forum Team Member
Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Som'where between Utopia and Insomnia.
Posts: 11,078
| Yeah its a lot to read...and honestly the basic concept will be the same for most of the articles The last link is the "best" one
You think I should stickee? Cool! I will
Last edited by Criosphynx; 10-19-2009 at 10:42 PM.
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10-20-2009, 02:27 AM
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#5 | | Dog Forum Team Member
Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: California...in the mountains
Posts: 15,871
| wow, that is a lot of info! i started with the last site first....lol.....you know when i have googled this before i always get sites that tell you "how to deal with dominence aggression in your dog" etc...
thanks | |
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10-20-2009, 09:27 AM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Banned again
Posts: 8,012
| I have read many articles on this issue also. I agree that a lot of issues are blamed on a dog as dominance or pack mentality because owners can not, or will not see training issues, but I have always believed this. I also have seen simple play mistaken for dominance issues. Three out of around 20 +/- dogs that I have had the pleasure of working with (mine, exes, family, friends) showed true dominance issues and harbored pack mentality. Two were hounds, one was a Minpin.
I disagree with many of the articles I have read that imply that dominance issues do not exist in domestic dogs. It may be stronger in specific breeds, or individual dogs. I feel it still exists in a minor form, but not in every dog. People don't know their own animals well enough to know the difference, and that is why the dominance card has gotten out of hand. It is to easy to just blame a behavior problem on pack mentality then it is to take care of a simple training problem.
This is based on my own experience, an is my opinion. I guess I am to stubborn to ignore what I have seen.  | 
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10-20-2009, 11:16 AM
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#7 | | Dog Forum Team Member
Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Som'where between Utopia and Insomnia.
Posts: 11,078
| Quote:
Originally Posted by ScentHound  showed true dominance issues and harbored pack mentality. |
do you mind explaining what this means? What are dominance issues to you and why do you attribute them to "dominance"?Why is it dominance and not learning theory...or social learning? Dominance is a term to describe which animal has better access to a resource ...you can't use it to describe anything else..it can't be a personality trait because its always changing and by definition its mearly a description of who has an object.. thats like me saying the dog has a " walking in the hallway" type of personality....or my dog is a " looks at tables som'times" type of dog.
They problem with this term is people use it to decribe EVERYTHING under the sun...so forgive me since I need clarification on your personal definition.
Dogs don't form packs. Thats a proven, studied, scientific fact.
Ferral dog colonies all over the planet form nothing more than fleeting friendships, no dominance heirachies. In fact its been proven that wolves don't form rigid dominance heirarchies as well. Whats even better is new research links dogs lineage to dingos ...not wolves. Quote: |
The dingo is legendary as Australia's wild dog, though it also occurs in Southeast Asia. The Australian animals may be descendents of Asian dingoes that were introduced to the continent some 3,000 to 4,000 years ago.
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they now think that dogs did not decend from wolves... but that both dogs and wolves have a common ancestor.
Maintaining a social structure requires abstract thinking that a dogs brain simply can not do.
if dogs were pack animals you would not be able to introduce a new dog...or a new person....all wolves in wolf pack are born into the pack and outsiders are the enemy. A true pack animal would only accept offspring or a mate and would kill all others. So what is "Dominance"
Last edited by Criosphynx; 10-20-2009 at 11:53 AM.
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10-20-2009, 11:40 AM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Banned again
Posts: 8,012
| Not necessarily packs mentality in a sense of wolf pack, I have seen pecking orders in existence. The hounds were more of a pecking order issue. In my experience, when you have a pack of scenthounds, they each have their own place within the pack. This is reinforced by posturing, nips, growls, and general aggression (they do not hurt each other). Anyone who has run a pack of hounds has seen this. The Minpin was my arch enemy (I am just kidding, I did everything I could to work with him). No, i didn't try to train him aggressively, I never do. He would stand in my way and posture (blocking), would mark my boots and shoes (territorial), run in the door in front of me and trip me up (pecking order), sit next to my Ex and growl if I got near her (claiming), guard the food and kick some out on the floor for the rest of the dogs (feeding his pack). I ended up having to feed him in a seperate room behind a closed door. I may be wrong, but his body language and the way he acted was textbook on the lines of the old school way of thought.
I was the only one he would do these things to.
Last edited by ScentHound; 10-20-2009 at 11:43 AM.
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10-20-2009, 11:56 AM
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#9 | | Dog Forum Team Member
Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Som'where between Utopia and Insomnia.
Posts: 11,078
| Quote:
Originally Posted by ScentHound Not necessarily packs mentality in a sense of wolf pack, I have seen pecking orders in existence. The hounds were more of a pecking order issue. In my experience, when you have a pack of scenthounds, they each have their own place within the pack. This is reinforced by posturing, nips, growls, and general aggression (they do not hurt each other). Anyone who has run a pack of hounds has seen this. The Minpin was my arch enemy (I am just kidding, I did everything I could to work with him). No, i didn't try to train him aggressively, I never do. He would stand in my way and posture (blocking), would mark my boots and shoes (territorial), run in the door in front of me and trip me up (pecking order), sit next to my Ex and growl if I got near her (claiming), guard the food and kick some out on the floor for the rest of the dogs (feeding his pack). I ended up having to feed him in a seperate room behind a closed door. I may be wrong, but his body language and the way he acted was textbook on the lines of the old school way of thought.
I was the only one he would do these things to. | thank you for explaining.
now how can any of that not be explained with learning theory? Quote: |
If one expects a positive outcome from a behaviour, or thinks there is a high probability of a positive outcome, then they will be more likely to engage in that behaviour. The behaviour is reinforced, with positive outcomes, leading a person to repeat the behaviour.
| see what Iam getting at?
Last edited by Criosphynx; 10-20-2009 at 12:02 PM.
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10-20-2009, 11:59 AM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Banned again
Posts: 8,012
| lol, you hate me don't you.
It may be able to be explained. Obviously, You have researched it more then I have. I will still work with each dog on an individual basis, and determine how best to teach them.
As always, I am still an opinionated jerk.  | |
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