Another corrections question

Mikey

Crio-this is mostly geared to you since you don't do corrections, and we discussed good reasons why...

I was thinking of a distinction here:

1) Correcting a dog when he lays down instead of sits-we discussed that a lot and it's good not to say 'no' or whatever, so they'll continue to offer behaviors, and just use pr when they get it right.


BUT what about???

2) Correcting a dog who is doing something bad...what about that though? I'm talking a 'no' or a 'down' when Mikey is jumping up on us (he is nutz for fetch now, and he jumps all over Dave) -should we correct? And in other situations too-like if he tries to sneak something off the table? Can we 'nooo' him then? What about when he has my bra and is taking it to his den to chew up?

borzoimom

Okay- first of all, "no" becomes such a general term. A dog can be confused ( ie uhhh wait a minute- one time no was for peeing the house ( lets say) and next time jumping up???). As you know, dogs are very smart and can easily learn ( although still a reprimand) it has a different term.
Use words like " off" when jumping up. Breaking a sit- if the dog lays down- you put back in a sit ( not a word) then sit the dog - say 'sit'- then to like 3- then praise- ( lengthen time as you go.) Its the same thing for a dog that breaks a stay- you say nothing- retrieve the dog, put the dog back where they were- ( same position- again not a word), and step back- keep time short like count to 3 ( lengthen as they get it)- return back and praise.

Brittany

Where can I find the thread where you were discussing that ^^^ I would like to read it.

fawkese1

Mikey and NRMs... (CRIO!! help!)
Cross over training discussion

here's 2 that i know it has come up in...


i would say that correcting in any of the situations you listed is not going to solve the problem...from all the stuff i've been reading, dogs do generalize aversives, and they will associate them with you...teaching impulse control and patience is key to preventing these things...jumping up during fetch, train the dog to sit before the ball is thrown, the more he enjoys the game the faster he will learn to do so...clover sits 9 outta 10 times w/o being asked to do so, simply because i started asking him to before i would throw the ball, no jumping up...i've never corrected him for jumping up when fetching as it was such a painstaking process to get him to play with toys.....
as far as the rest of your behaviors-most corrections just suppress behaviors, they do not stop them...for example, when you correct a dog for stealing food from the table, you teach the dog that something bad happens when he steals food from the table and you are present, but when you aren't there, it is free game, you do not teach the dog not to steal from the table at all tho...and chewing innappropriate items...same thing...re-directing works better imo and my experience...with chewing, i do use bitter apple/fooey for a lot of things, otherwise i keep them out of the dog's reach, and provide a lot appropriate things he can chew on when not supervised...the only time that clover has chewed anything he wasn't supposed to have is during a stressful time when i'm not home...for example if i come home later on my lunch break or if i leave him in the house alone and it is a time he isn't used to being alone (he has seperation anxiety) and those items have been the rugs at the doorways, my mattress topper on my bed...
anyway...rather then correcting, try using a positive interrupter, then re-directing...
there is a good video on positive interrupters on youtube, but i can't get to it right now...will post later...
it is generally better to focus on rewarding good behavior and ignoring bad behavior...just like house training...it does no good to use corrections in house training....and you've posted the reasons for that...same thing applies in other areas...

borzoimom

There is correcting the dog, and correcting the behavior to indicate the 'proper position" needed at the time.
Example " off" is not negative- its where to go..

Mikey

We were mostly discussing it here
Mikey and NRMs... (CRIO!! help!)

Basic conclusions are that by using No Reward Markers or Corrections when the dog does the incorrect action-your shutting them down from offering behaviors. Whereas a dog who does not have this done, and only Positive Reinforcement when correct, will continue to 'try' or offer behaviors-and that makes training easier

borzoimom

To be blunt- its the same as children. You are giving guide lines of what is acceptable.
Now like with a dog- dog is barking " be quiet".. ( praise on silent..).

fawkese1

good point BM...training the appropriate behavior rather then correcting...off is not a correction, it is a different place to be...just like "leave-it" is not a correction, rather a cue when trained properly...

borzoimom

Exactly- " leave it" is like saying what I want you to do and praise or even ignore ( to a dog ignore is you have relaxed- so should I type thing).
" No!" is highly rare- I use that if so out of line- you better stop NOW! ( like aggression -( as long as not fear triggered aggression then that would only make it worse etc).
Example- my dogs know the difference from " lay down " and " down". Down means- where you are right now- where as lay down is find a place and lay down ..

borzoimom

Maybe the question the use of the term. I do not see it as 'correction"- I see it as 'modiflying behavior.."