2 part question: dominance and fear

pawzaddict · 04-28-2010, 01:01 PM

Sorry all this is gonna be a doozy!

I had a friend over yesterday who Harvick has taken a liking to. He acts like his normal self at first, low growls, some barking but its definitely way better than before. Anywho, Harvick and Glacier were playing and Glacier rolled over on his back, still playing...my friend proceeded to tell me she thinks the problem is I am not asserting my dominance on Harvick so he thinks he runs the house....

I do not agree as I have been through advanced training with Harvick, use NILIF on all my dogs, and Harvick does listen to me when I give him commands. I do not feel the need to interrupt playtime when they are not being aggressive...am I wrong here? Is Harvick doing something he should not be allowed to do? I looked at this as them playing, Glacier always rolls on his back and thrashes his feet around, its just what he does. Am I not asserting my dominance over them? Is this even something we are doing or is it establishing hierarchy?

Now for question 2...I have been walking the dogs daily by themselves. Harvick had a run in with 2 joggers which he clearly does not like! I have had kids ride by on their bikes and he does not react the way he does when kids or adults are running. He literally turned around and lunged at the guy. My reaction? I put him in a down stay (I saw the couple jogging earlier so knew a woman was bound to come around the corner) sure enough she did and when he growled I said "uh uh" and put my body in front of him. I did not have treats on me as I was trying to get him to heel with no treats present (which worked). So how do I go about this situation? how do I get him to not react when someone jogs by? Is this a possible breed thing, since he has border collie? Is he frustrated because he needs an actual job? I am getting the box out again today when I get home from school but what else can I do with him? In all he has been doing dramatically better.

**Criosphynx** · 04-28-2010, 01:56 PM

I love your questions!

For the first one, if Glacier is offering the roll, then I see absolutely zero problem with it. In fact to me, that signals that glacier is uber comfortable and confident around harvick (if hes rolling around and playing)...now if hes more like "omg omg don't hurt me" type rolling over, then I'd say hes a bit underconfident (not what it sounds like)...but honestly, hes not being pushy or trying to FORCE glacier to roll over, so I don't see the issue.

Either way, even if you do believe in a heirarchy, how harvick and glacier defer to each other has nothing to do with how they will defer to YOU IMO.

question two, its hard to say without seeing him in action....could be reactivity with a genetic root, or a root in frustration. Either situation, you would heavily reward the behavior you do like, and try to avoid triggering the "bad" behavior, and redirect him or remove him if you can't avoid the reaction.

Quote:

Is he frustrated because he needs an actual job? I am getting the box out again today when I get home from school but what else can I do with him? In all he has been doing dramatically better.

do you have any food dispensing toys? Not kongs, but like puzzle toys? These have been a LIFESAVER...two meals a day in a puzzle toy really really help.

pawzaddict · 04-28-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

For the first one, if Glacier is offering the roll, then I see absolutely zero problem with it. In fact to me, that signals that glacier is uber comfortable and confident around harvick (if hes rolling around and playing)...now if hes more like "omg omg don't hurt me" type rolling over, then I'd say hes a bit underconfident (not what it sounds like)

Sounds good to me. Glacier is definitely not afraid of Harvick.

Quote:

Either way, even if you do believe in a heirarchy, how harvick and glacier defer to each other has nothing to do with how they will defer to YOU IMO.

The only thing I want and believe is that when I give a command I expect Harvick to follow it, which he does. I do not feel the need to disrupt their behaviors as long as it is not being aggressive. They, in a sense need to establish their relationships.

Quote:

do you have any food dispensing toys? Not kongs, but like puzzle toys? These have been a LIFESAVER...two meals a day in a puzzle toy really really help.

We have kongs but he is not interested in it. Maybe putting food in it and giving it to him but it will have to be in his crate b/c he is reactive around food unless I am giving out treats. Will try that. I think I will just have to try and avoid people but we were going up our driveway when they ran by.

TY for the response

**Criosphynx** · 04-28-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

The only thing I want and believe is that when I give a command I expect Harvick to follow it, which he does. I do not feel the need to disrupt their behaviors as long as it is not being aggressive. They, in a sense need to establish their relationships.

Yup, I agree with this

Quote:

We have kongs but he is not interested in it. Maybe putting food in it and giving it to him but it will have to be in his crate b/c he is reactive around food unless I am giving out treats. Will try that. I think I will just have to try and avoid people but we were going up our driveway when they ran by.

unless Iam on the floor, I just toss a dog in each room LOL...I like these and recommend them

Buster Cube - Home

Tug-A-Jug Dog Toy

Kiwi likes this one

Amazon.com: StarMark Bob-A-Lot Interactive Pet Toy: Home & Garden

amazon carries all of them and then som'

you may have to buy a bunch, I find that one dog will "get" one toy and not another...I had the buster cube for a YEAR and no one would figure it out...then chili figured it out and the others observed...I didn't give observational learning alot of credit before, but Tippy and Emma now understand it and use it, I believe from watching.

anyway, those toys will fry their little minds!!

pawzaddict · 04-28-2010, 04:06 PM

Sounds good. I will look for them and try and find some cheap. Glad I am on the right path with the "dominance" crap

TY so much for your response it makes me feel better.

**fawkese1** · 04-29-2010, 03:24 AM

just wanted to ditto crios on this... from your description of the dog's play, it doesn't sound dominant at all... imo, good dog-dog play like this is EXTREMELY theraputic for dogs like harvick... sorta like a night out with the girls will re-energize you and help you to cope with stuff you are struggling with, being able to have this type of relationship is a great stress reliever for him, and it is in dog language...

pawzaddict · 06-21-2010, 10:39 PM

I dont want to start too many threads on Harvick so I am bringing this back up b/c its similar in context.

I just got my other 2 books in, so that is 4 books:
Calming Signals
Control Unleashed
For the love of a dog
How to right a dog gone wrong

I am finding out from all the books so far that my biggest task at hand is finding Harvicks triggers and noticing his body changes (ears, eyes, body language, etc), please correct me if I am wrong.

Like Fawkese mentioned, How to right a dog gone wrong has great worksheets in it, however, my question is..should I just continue what I would normally with do Harvick or should I be purposely putting him in situations? I would rather not put him in situations on purpose other than general ones, such as walk the neighborhood. It asks questions like direct contact, men with facial hair, etc...I 1. dont want to put him in a situation where he could bite
2. dont feel like asking someone who fits any particular description to approach my dog for the sake of seeing how he reacts

I really want to make sure I do everything right! Thanks!

**fawkese1** · 06-22-2010, 05:21 PM

i wouldn't put him into any situations... even tho figuring out his triggers is important, IMO it is more important to avoid reactions. with clover, i have just been extra vigilant of how he reacts to certain things...

if you don't know how he reacts to something because he hasn't been exposed to it before, then i would treat it as if it were a trigger and do desensitizing work with him as a way of introducing him to it... does that make sense?

**Criosphynx** · 06-22-2010, 06:19 PM

lol, I started reading this like it was a new thread, and thought...didn't she post this before??? LOL

I agree, its all about avoiding triggers. I condition against the triggers I can NOT avoid, because, well, I have too. But would a man wielding a knife in a clown suit be a trigger? Sure, but I ain't worried about it because its unlikely. LOL

Just like the few people that visit may get jumped on. We almost never have visitors so I havn't bothered to train them not to, to a level of "perfection". But stuff I use daily, heck yeah I train for it. I guess my point is, train the useful stuff.

also, I treat new stuff as if it WILL be a trigger, like Fawkese mentioned. I don't wait to find out.

pawzaddict · 06-22-2010, 07:38 PM

cool thanks ladies!!!!