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Dominance issues - I Think...

9K views 43 replies 12 participants last post by  ScentHound 
#1 ·
My girlfriend's dog exhibits some annoying behavior, which I think is due to dominance issues due to a lack of significant training throughout her life, she is 5 years old and here are some of the things I want to talk about -

  • Runs ahead of you and pulls you while walking on the leash
  • If she's sitting in my GF's lap and I go to pet her/touch my GF, she growls/raises teeth/snaps and bites me (good thing she's small otherwise there would've been serious injury)
  • When me and her are alone she pretty much acts like I don't exist and won't listen to a "sit" command. Only time she'll give me attention is when I sit/lay on the ground, and then she proceeds to climb up on top of my lap or chest.
  • She has the most intense separtation anxiety I've ever seen in a dog. If I take her for a walk and my GF stays in the house, the dog will constantly be trying to turn around and pull me back to the house and to my gf. I'm lucky if she even does her business! Another instance is when she bit me pretty bad one time, my girlfriend decided to punish her by locking her in the basement for a while. She barked and barked for an hour straight, we tried to bear it, but eventually we caved.
  • WHENEVER me and my girlfriend are laying on the bed together, she'll jump up and try to work her way in between us, licking and acting nice on the way in, but once she's in between us, she's back into that over protective "i'm gonna kill you if you pet me/touch your girlfriend" mode.

This really annoys me because I love dogs and I really want this pup to trust me and feel comfortable around me. Every time I walk over to my GF the dog runs between her legs and starts barking and growling at me, all while wagging her tail (which really confuses me!). I've been seeing this dog for a month now, and the first day we met she bit me and instinctively I gave her a 2 finger tap on the nose, so I'm wondering if that damaged our relationship or something? My GF said her dog has NEVER been punished in any way before besides yelling "NO" and then hugging and petting her (sighh). I haven't done that since because I know it will only make things worse, and you can't treat aggression with aggression.

As for what this dog's training was like growing up, it was pretty much non-existant... She was pretty much SMOTHERED with affection, even after biting people and barking its head off for hours (my gf's family would just call her over and hug her/cuddle her whenever she did something wrong, not knowing any better.) She's also been sleeping in my GF's bed since the first day they got her. She doesn't know what "backing off" is and just chilling alone, if there are other people in the room, she makes sure she's in between that person and my girlfriend. It seems like the only person Miley (the dog) respects is my girlfriend, she's "her person". But it's gotten to the point where Miley thinks she runs the house/family and she can do whatever she wants and get whatever she wants without consequence. This has been reinforced for her entire life.

IDK how ya'll feel about the whole dominance issue thing, but with this dog it seems to be evident and very serious. The dog literally won't even stay in the room with me if my girlfriend leaves, and it doesn't even seem like fear is the reason. My girlfriend gets up to go to the kitchen, and Miley jumps off the bed while I'm petting her and runs in between my GF's legs, following her wherever she goes.

GRRR this makes me soo angry lollll. I just want this dog to like me, and at the same time realize that it is NOT in charge of the situation, especially when she comes to my house and acts that way.

Sorry this was so long, but I'm just looking for some help/guidance as to what to do, and what to suggest for my girlfriend to do, because apparently Miley is like this with every other stranger too, even her brother! I think I'm just gonna get my own pup and train her right! LOL
 
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#3 ·
Well, lol similar situation w/ my fiance and I when we started dating only my dog he had issues with is about 75-80 pounds. And the others weren't a ton better.

1) if she is pulling u down the street on walks there are a few things you can do.
A) there is always choker/pinch collars. Like any tool these items need to be used with caution and properly. Last thing you want to do is hurt her Trechea. So if she is a small dog I wouldn't really use these unless a last resort.
B) a head harness. This is usually a nylon head stall much like you see on a horse. You hook the lead to the under side and by simply light pressure to the lead it will tip the dogs nose in your direction and MOST dogs will slow or stop. Again must be used properly as to not hurt the dog.
C) change direction. If she starts running ahead stop, let her stop and then walk 3-4 paces in the other direction and then go back the direction you were going. Basically you will be making little circles until she learns that you want her to walk beside of you.
D) Heel command: this is really a must and best thing. IF the dog knows sit. start there. then as you take a step forward say heel. Keep the leash fairly tight. don't give her wiggle room or a ton of leash. every few seconds say heel, and 'pop" or slight tug the lead...keep her attention on you w/ treats to start.

As far as her following your GF around; she was your GF's dog b4 you came into the picture..probably never gonna change. If I get up all 3 dogs are right there w/ me. It doesn't matter if he's eating, playing with them or if they were just chillin on the floor.

As to the aggression when you try to touch your GF or when you are hangin out and she tries to wiggle her way in and then get attitude.
1) Should never be tolerated. If a child were to come over for example...even a small dog can be detrimental.
2) She could even really hurt you if she catches you or someone else in the face.
My suggestion; if the dog is w/ your GF and you go to touch her or your gf and she so much as tenses, put the dog on the ground. and totally ignore her. If she jumps back up take her to another room and lock her in for 5 min to start. let her out start again. Go slowly. If she doesn't tense up give her a tiny piece of turkey or chicken. progress a bit until you get a reaction. See what you are doing is 'punishing" her when she is bad, rewarding when she is good.
In the bedroom, I wouldn't let her on the bed. She could go off on you while you are sleeping. I would lock her clear out of the bed room until you can get the aggression out in the open under control.

Hope this helps sorry it's soo dang long winded.
 
#8 ·
1) if she is pulling u down the street on walks there are a few things you can do.
A) there is always choker/pinch collars. Like any tool these items need to be used with caution and properly. Last thing you want to do is hurt her Trechea. So if she is a small dog I wouldn't really use these unless a last resort.
B) a head harness. This is usually a nylon head stall much like you see on a horse. You hook the lead to the under side and by simply light pressure to the lead it will tip the dogs nose in your direction and MOST dogs will slow or stop. Again must be used properly as to not hurt the dog.
C) change direction. If she starts running ahead stop, let her stop and then walk 3-4 paces in the other direction and then go back the direction you were going. Basically you will be making little circles until she learns that you want her to walk beside of you.
D) Heel command: this is really a must and best thing. IF the dog knows sit. start there. then as you take a step forward say heel. Keep the leash fairly tight. don't give her wiggle room or a ton of leash. every few seconds say heel, and 'pop" or slight tug the lead...keep her attention on you w/ treats to start.
please please please dont to this. no leash popping, no choke or prong collars... please....
changing direction does work though, but here is another way....

try getting an easy walk harness, these are a specially designed front hooking harness. these are a band-aid though. work on the actual problem of pulling as well.

get a long wooden spoon (since this is a small dog and its hard to bend over and treat the dog constantly when walking.) put some peanut butter on the end of the spoon. use it to lure the dog to follow at your side. put it up just enough so that shes following it but not eating it. give her a command to start walking, praise her as shes walking where you want "good girl, yesss, good girl" and treat her periodically. if you want an automatic sit when you stop, every few steps you take, stop and lure her into a sit. when she sits at your side praise and reward her for it, then give the command to start walking again. i use "lets go" because heel literally means the dog must be lined up with your heel. but i also teach obedience and when my clients decide to go into advanced obediences i dont want the dog confused on what heel means.

walking on leash will help if you start inside. teach her to walk nicely inside. then move into the yard, then to the street. the idea is the amount of distraction she has to deal with, so you want to solidify in her mind what you want her to be doing, before you add in all the distractions of the great outdoors! they key though is to quickly remove using a lure. bring your lure back when you begin training in a new area (inside, yard, streed) and begin to quickly phase it out.
 
#9 ·
Have you read the dominance stickies yet? I know som' behaviors look like "pack" behaviors but the articles explain why they arent. In fac the man himself who came up with pack theory now says it was wrong and bad science.

I urge you to read up! You'll learn alot of cool new things ;)
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#5 ·
My girlfriend's dog exhibits some annoying behavior, which I think is due to dominance issues due to a lack of significant training throughout her life, she is 5 years old and here are some of the things I want to talk about -

  • Runs ahead of you and pulls you while walking on the leash


  • Teach her to walk on a loose lead. This has nothing to do with dominance (as no problem behaviours do in dog behaviour- it's just a successful meme that people pine on for describing annoying behaviour because they don't know the real answer). Dogs 1) walk a lot faster than humans 2) may hate being tethered to a lead, and thus wants to get away and 3) wants to get somewhere as fast as possible, which means pulling you. By stopping, like a tree, every time she pulls, and encouraging her back to your side, you will teach her that as soon as she pulls, she stops moving. This takes consistency though, as a dog's brain is not like ours.

    [*]If she's sitting in my GF's lap and I go to pet her/touch my GF, she growls/raises teeth/snaps and bites me (good thing she's small otherwise there would've been serious injury)
    Okay, so the dog is very insecure of people touching her prized resource- your girlfriend- and, as a result, has developed a guarding issue. Although you say this isn't fear, it actually is- fear of a potential threat makes her act like this. You need to work on building a bond with her and practising some positive association. So fill a bag of her daily meal food, or some better treats, or use her favourite toy, and everytime you come close to her on your GF's lap, throw her a treat. Repeat this, until you can sit down and offer her a treat/play with her toy. Then practise giving her a treat by hand, so the motion of your hand coming over is not a bad one to her. Then encourage her to you...work on an 'Off' command by throwing a treat on the floor, then when she consistently jumps off, say a verbal command "Off" just before you put the treat on the ground, and practise. Get rid of food lures as quickly as possible and just use the command and the motion of your arm indicating the command, but only treating when she complies.
    [*]When me and her are alone she pretty much acts like I don't exist and won't listen to a "sit" command. Only time she'll give me attention is when I sit/lay on the ground, and then she proceeds to climb up on top of my lap or chest.
    Practising the above exercise, plus other basic obedience, with food and/or toys will strengthen your bond. You will become a positive experience in her eyes- your GF is such a prized thing because she probably feeds/walks/cuddles/spends loads of time with her, and over time she has became very important.

    [*]She has the most intense separtation anxiety I've ever seen in a dog. If I take her for a walk and my GF stays in the house, the dog will constantly be trying to turn around and pull me back to the house and to my gf. I'm lucky if she even does her business! Another instance is when she bit me pretty bad one time, my girlfriend decided to punish her by locking her in the basement for a while. She barked and barked for an hour straight, we tried to bear it, but eventually we caved.
    I would class this as separation anxiety, or anything severe, as she could be doing a lot worse than just barking/pulling. But she definitely has some issue being on her own. Try feeding her in Kong toys, or something similar, so she spends time eating her food, whilst you guys can leave her in a separate room for a while. Slowly increase the time that you do, so she learns that you leaving is a positive experience. Also, try this:
    YouTube - ‪How to train your dog to be left alone- clicker training‬‏

    [*]WHENEVER me and my girlfriend are laying on the bed together, she'll jump up and try to work her way in between us, licking and acting nice on the way in, but once she's in between us, she's back into that over protective "i'm gonna kill you if you pet me/touch your girlfriend" mode.
The above alone time training will help and also a baby gate. You may need to sit through a night of hell, ignoring any barking or anything, but you need to teach the dog that these things aren't reinforcing. That includes yelling 'No' at her...as this is usually just as reinforcing as cuddles because you've given her attention.

Every time I walk over to my GF the dog runs between her legs and starts barking and growling at me, all while wagging her tail (which really confuses me!).
Wagging tails mean very little. It basically just shows that the dog is aroused in some way- that could mean happy and excited, or frustrated and hostile. However, in general, a high-carried, alert tail (perhaps like a helicopter!) can signal high-arousal. Look at the eyes, ears, body carriage, facial tension, mouth (open or close) etc.

I've been seeing this dog for a month now, and the first day we met she bit me and instinctively I gave her a 2 finger tap on the nose, so I'm wondering if that damaged our relationship or something? My GF said her dog has NEVER been punished in any way before besides yelling "NO" and then hugging and petting her (sighh). I haven't done that since because I know it will only make things worse, and you can't treat aggression with aggression.
Don't ever hit the dog again. But your GF can't cuddle him in this mode either. If he becomes aggressive, just back off and work on the exercises above. An aggressive dog being aggressive needs to calm before training can start. She is not going to learn in that mental state- she's too worked up and aroused for her to pay attention to other thoughts but "Move back!".

IDK how ya'll feel about the whole dominance issue thing, but with this dog it seems to be evident and very serious. The dog literally won't even stay in the room with me if my girlfriend leaves, and it doesn't even seem like fear is the reason. My girlfriend gets up to go to the kitchen, and Miley jumps off the bed while I'm petting her and runs in between my GF's legs, following her wherever she goes.
You don't need to worry about dominance. Check out the sticky in the training section and also the sticky on dog social behaviour (this section? I've forgotten...). There's some descriptions of dominance there. But what you need to know is that it really isn't a property of dog, or canid, social behaviour. Throw away the Cesar Millan and focus on real dog training and behaviour.
 
#6 ·
Ditto rottiefan.

Dominance really isn't something you need to worry about. Whether you believe it's real or not for dogs, it doesn't need to be used in training. If it was real, it doesn't even matter in this case, your a human. Not a dog. My mum talks about a pecking order in her chickens (which is something that's the dominance theory in dogs was originally based on supposedly), yet even though she's extremly close to them, she doesn't try to be some sort of leader to control them lol.
I prefer to think of wolf packs as a family. The mating pair are what would be considered the alphas. Most of what they do and how they work could be compared to a human family (though a bit different, since we're obviously very different animals).
As for wild dogs, they tend to be more scavengers.
 
#7 ·
As far as the growling at you in conjunction with being near your GF, I'd work to manage the situations to prevent them.

By that I mean give yourself a break and don't let her up on the bed or couch if she is going to act that way towards you. You'll need your GF's cooperation, and in fact it should be your GF primarily who tells her to get off the bed or couch (you cannot be seen as the "bad guy" all the time).

Structure things so there are fewer opportunities for this sort of guarding of your GF. That's very tough to live with.

The training suggestions are good too, and you can work on those as well, but while she's still learning, just prevent the situations in the first place.

(BTW, pulling on a leash has nothing to do with dominance.)
 
#11 · (Edited)
Dude...ok IDk where ya'll get your info. I am not trying to sound big headed but I graduated w/ my degree in Animal Science. I took behavior as a class. Dogs are Pack animals. I am not saying that aggression is particularly a "pack" issue. But dogs are pack animals.

And to greatdanemom...it was the only word i could think of to say tighten or gently tug or whatever the leash..not give the dog whip lash just enough to get the dogs attention. And As I stated. I do not like Prong/choke collars but in certain situations it can be used as a last resort. Collars of this nature and e-collars are tools and like ANY tool can be used improperly but if you have ever been to an obedience class Most require a choke collar...(At least all the ones I have been to and judged.) Just throwing that out there.

The dog has issues...and i'm sorry but the human could be in danger of being injured...i'd be trying everything to stop this before someone does.

I think you all misread the post i posted..JMHO.


And I can still give you extremely good examples of why dogs ARE Pack animals.
 
#15 ·
And to greatdanemom...it was the only word i could think of to say tighten or gently tug or whatever the leash..not give the dog whip lash just enough to get the dogs attention. And As I stated. I do not like Prong/choke collars but in certain situations it can be used as a last resort. Collars of this nature and e-collars are tools and like ANY tool can be used improperly but if you have ever been to an obedience class Most require a choke collar...(At least all the ones I have been to and judged.) Just throwing that out there.
im sorry but this is all coming from a very old school method of training and sheltered view of it all. if i have ever been to an obedience class? funny... im a trainer. i train puppy socialization, puppy obedience, basic obedience, advanced obedience, tricks, adult socialization, adult public behavior, tracking, and i also run a prep class and test for canine good citizens. along with doing private lessons with dogs and i used to train adult and puppies in shelters, so i have a great deal of knowledge in dealing with problem behaviors. i have NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER used a choke on a dog or in class. NEVER. not a prong or an ecollar. NOTHING. my dogs are trained with flat buckle collars. NO ONE should be using prongs, chokes, ecollars, etc. if they are not properly trained in how to use them. you NEVER needed to mention it or "thow it out there". this is how dogs are hurt, because people "throw it out there" and these people get choke collars and cause mental and/or physical damage to their dogs.


The dog has issues...and i'm sorry but the human could be in danger of being injured...i'd be trying everything to stop this before someone does.
issues? as far as lack of training and socilization, yes. some resource guarding, yes. NOTHING that cant be fixed easily and without having to punish the dog.

And I can still give you extremely good examples of why dogs ARE Pack animals.
go ahead, but most of the members here can find the real reason for those behaviors.
 
#12 ·
Dude...ok IDk where ya'll get your info. I am not trying to sound big headed but I graduated w/ my degree in Animal Science. I took behavior as a class. Dogs are Pack animals. I am not saying that aggression is particularly a "pack" issue. But dogs are pack animals.
the people writing the articles have PhDs in animal behavior. I once again urge you to read up on the science behind what we are saying. We aren't making it up. Its possible you were taught old knowlege that has since been debunked.


:)

As far as corrections, there are ways to train without corrections that most of us do here on this board. If you'd like to learn how to do that we can teach you how also :) My dogs are very advanced, all rescues and come from wildly different backgrounds and I use no form of physical or verbal corrections to get behavior :)



 
#13 ·
OK, so explain me this..if dog's AREN'T pack animals...PACKS of wild dogs run here. We have major problems keeping them out of the livestock and have had a few extreme cases we have had to shoot these animals. Animal control is always our first choice but if they are killing our herd and we have no other choice then we do. They are not wolves or Yottes. They are dogs that have been dumped..primarily by college kids that live in the next town over.

I have 5 dogs, 3 inside and 2 out. I run Llewellin Setters and used to field trial. They will run together as a PACK and hunt together. You can see even in my dogs who have been together all their lives a Dominant Pecking Order. The "top dog" or Alpha is a female by the name of Sue. She carries her head and tail higher. As the order goes down the dogs head set and tail set goes a bit lower..(not tons no dog here has a tail less than level it's back). The dog in front also determines who is where. If a dog crosses a "boundry" set by her she will lay them down..no skin is ever broken but she will pin them to the ground Showing her power.

If you would like more examples of pack behaviors in dogs just let me know.
 
#14 · (Edited)
OK, so explain me this..if dog's AREN'T pack animals...PACKS of wild dogs run here. We have major problems keeping them out of the livestock and have had a few extreme cases we have had to shoot these animals. Animal control is always our first choice but if they are killing our herd and we have no other choice then we do. They are not wolves or Yottes. They are dogs that have been dumped..primarily by college kids that live in the next town over.

I have 5 dogs, 3 inside and 2 out. I run Llewellin Setters and used to field trial. They will run together as a PACK and hunt together. You can see even in my dogs who have been together all their lives a Dominant Pecking Order. The "top dog" or Alpha is a female by the name of Sue. She carries her head and tail higher. As the order goes down the dogs head set and tail set goes a bit lower..(not tons no dog here has a tail less than level it's back). The dog in front also determines who is where. If a dog crosses a "boundry" set by her she will lay them down..no skin is ever broken but she will pin them to the ground Showing her power.

If you would like more examples of pack behaviors in dogs just let me know.

You're not going to convince anyone here that dogs are pack animals, sorry ;) All those behaviors have alternative explanations

Did you read the stickies? Please READ them before you dismiss them :) Like I mentioned they are from credible people with phDs in animal behavior...this convo really is de railing this thread so if you or anyone else would like to discuss it more I suggest you start a new thread. :) Thanks

here it is for you :)

http://www.dogforum.com/dog-training/dominance-dogs-4076/


:)



 
#18 ·
NO ONE should be using prongs, chokes, ecollars, etc. if they are not properly trained in how to use them. you NEVER needed to mention it or "thow it out there". this is how dogs are hurt, because people "throw it out there" and these people get choke collars and cause mental and/or physical damage to their dogs.
As a trainer who has used all of the tools listed for almost 50 years I have to agree with the above reply 100%, you just don't throw out aversive advice online cause dogs will get hurt.
 
#19 ·
Perhaps one of the problems we are having on this thread is different definitions of "pack."

One definition might be a "social group of animals living together"

a second definition might emphasize "alpha dog" and every animal having a "rank" that is "maintained by force" within the group.

It is the second definition, that has been called into question by more modern research.

The issue with that second definition, emphasizing "rank" and enforcement of rank by "dominating" one another leads to interpreting so much dog behavior through that lens.

For example, pulling on the leash becomes a "dominance issue" rather than simply "a dog eager to go investigate his environment while tied to a slow walking human."

Another example: The dog goes out the door ahead of the human. The old definition says "the dog is trying to be in charge!" While looking at this another way... the dog simply is going out the door and has not yet been taught any behaviors that humans would like to see such as a "sit" before a "release" word.

So my point is, the whole "pack-dominance" paradigm has people confused about what is really going on with their dogs. Fear of the dog "taking over leadership" can lead to humans being overly forceful with their dogs, in an attempt to assert the human being in charge, when actually, simple non-violent training will solve the issues and lead to a better relationship between dogs and humans. ;)

That's some stuff I've learned on this forum, having been formerly schooled in the "dominance paradigm" myself. So I'm glad now not to be interpreting all my dog's behavior through that lens. Sometimes it was a huge stretch to try to fit his behaviors into that framework, and now I realize why... because it just was a poor explanation.

My 2 cents, FWIW. ;)
 
#22 ·
Well, I stand by what I said previous and Thanks Tess...that is true. People don't READ though. In post 1) I stated that the prong/choke collar was an OPTION. And that this method is one that I WOULDN'T use for fear of hurting the dogs Treachea. However, it is a TOOL and used PROPERLY can get the desired result.

As far as training IS concerned...There are hundreds of ways to TRAIN a dog. To call one way Dated is shallow minded in my personal opinion. I've probably had 100 dogs over my lifetime and if you are telling me that every single dog is trained the exact same way every time you'd be lying. I've had dogs that you tell them just a handful of times what you want them to do (house breaking/ground manners) and they have it for life...and then I've had others that were....well a lot harder! To truly be a good trainer you must be able to analyze the situation and then put to action a plan to train the dog what you are seeking to accomplish. And no matter what sort of training method you are using you will have TOOLS. Tools can be anything from leash to collar to clicker to treats. All of these are tools and all have to be used PROPERLY. And yes in most cases I would HIGHLY recommend contacting a professional. If a professional trainer is NOT available, sometimes your vet can give you helpful tips and tricks...

I Judge 2-3 events a year (if not more). Every fair that I judge the top 2 requirements on that list are Rabies vaccine and choke collar with a leather lead. I don't make the rules just follow them. So Obviously SOMEONE out there thinks this IS the way, at least in a large setting, to handle a dog. I personally do not use choke or prongs on a dog unless, (As PREVIOUSLY STATED) It is a LAST RESORT. Even the Illinois State Fair show requires a choke collar. I'm NOT saying it's right, I'm saying that's the way it is done.
Further more, I'm NOT discrediting you or your views...and I find it more than a bit rude to think that someone would discredit mine. Especially being as you didn't read the post...obviously.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I Judge 2-3 events a year (if not more). Every fair that I judge the top 2 requirements on that list are Rabies vaccine and choke collar with a leather lead. I don't make the rules just follow them. So Obviously SOMEONE out there thinks this IS the way, at least in a large setting, to handle a dog.
what kind of shows are you talking about? if you are talking conformation, its not really for the handling of the dog so much as it is being able to see the dogs full conformation without having thick collars and leashes in the way. hence why the slip leads they use are very very fine chain. if this is what you are judging, then there is a large difference. and what exactly is you professional experience training dogs? just curious...
 
#23 ·
Perhaps another thing we have going on here is a difference in perspective.

On the one hand we have mid-western gun dog training / 4-H shows and so forth.

On the other hand we have more of a perspective of dogs as pets, living in cities and suburbs.

I'm not saying gun dogs are not also pets, but I do think historically, the way folks think of hunting dogs is very different. For example, often hunting dogs live outside in a kennel. That rarely happens for pet dogs in the cities/suburbs.

Another difference in perspective is that hunting dogs are often owned by people who also have livestock such as horses and cattle. I think that can lead to a different approach with dogs, compared with your average suburban dog owner.

I'm not trying to insult anyone. All I'm saying is there are two perspectives going on here.
 
#24 ·
I have sat back and read everything, and IMO you don't want to learn something other than what you have been told to know.

There are no ranks in households when it comes to dogs, just dogs pushed over threshold and lashing out, or dogs with bad habits/behaviors which need some working on. In your example of your female 'putting the other dog on its back' during a hunt, your dog is resource guarding the hunted, or is so over threshold she will attack anything in her way.

I suggest learning some up to date ideas and methods before suggesting things to people. You did suggest it, and you did suggest the dog is dominating, and when provided links to show otherwise you got uber defensive instead of stepping back and reading it. I understand why you would become defensive, as I was in your shoes when I started here. I used corrections and believed in dominance/pack issues in every setting, then I really read what I was provided and learned a lot.
 
#29 ·
Thanks Tess :)

I really want to make it clear that nobody is here to put anyone down, they are here to help people learn some calm and helpful new ideas that are overshadowed by the old ideas. It is easy to take it personally, again I know, I have been there. Its tough to learn something and feel empowered by knowledge just to have those ideas be outdated and new ones come about.
 
#33 ·
I will also say I have never personally used an e-collar or bark collar in any form. I don't like them. I find they are over used and abused. And the only time I have EVER stuck a dog was when the 2 were fighting and my niece (2 at the time) was standing in the yard and their fight was progressing towards her. Tried Throwing water on them to break them up and nothing was stopping them. I finally got the opportunity to grab them and did get ahold of one (the neighbors, mine was the other) as I was trying to get the neighbors dog to a pen mine came up to start it again and I struck him. He looked at me like WTH! WAs the only thing I could think to do in a serious situation.
Since then the neighbor has started keeping his dog kenneled when he isn't home and my dog has stopped fighting all together (though I think the real reason the fight started was a friends dog (here for training) had come into season.

Just thought I'd add that to clarify.
 
#34 · (Edited)
OK, good stuff!

Now I'd like to offer the original poster a couple of thoughts, FWIW.

I'm inferring the dog in question is small-ish, yes? One thing to know about many small dogs is that the world can be a scary place for them. Think of living in a world inhabited by elephants who stoop over you, pick you up, give you commands and so forth.

A common reaction is for these dogs to growl or snap in an attempt to keep the scary people away! I understand you mean no threat to the dog, but what we intend and how the dog sees things can be different.

One clue you gave is that the dog "ignores me" all the time. A dog looking away, pretending not to notice a person, can actually be a dog who is trying to appease the situation, that she feels is dangerous, with this sort of canine body language. Check out this thread on "calming signals".

Another interesting clue you gave is that the dog will come to sit on your lap when you get on the floor and thus are very non-threatening! So the dog does know you exist, wants to relate to you, but most of the time seems to be feeling overwhelmed by your presence.

So here is how it goes from what you've said.

- Dog growls and snaps when you are very near and dog is next to GF. This could be a fear-defensive reaction or perhaps a Resource Guarding reaction, as previously suggested.

- Dog ignores your "commands". This could be a dog who is scared and is feeling "shouted at" (even if you are not shouting) and sort of paralyzed into inaction. Try this. Get on the floor with a handful of treats. Wait for the dog to come over to you, give a treat. Then ask the dog in a light, encouraging voice for a "siiiit!" and lure the dog's head up with the treat in your hand. If you do this just right, her back end will plop on the ground. Give the treat! After a few such repetitions, stop using the treat as a lure and just use your empty hand. Again give praise and a treat for success. You are on your way!

If you can begin to have a few successful interactions with the dog like this, and again, try to set things up to avoid the situations where she is feeling threatened and growling, (ie looming over her while she is next to GF) you can start to build a trusting relationship with the dog and she can start to think of you as a "safe" person just like your GF is to her.

We all highly recommend this training method seen here. You can do this with any dog at any age and there is no danger of causing any harm, and a very high likelyhood of making great progress with the problems you are encountering with this dog.

YouTube - ‪kikopup's Channel‬‏


Good luck and please let us know how things go. Sorry this thread went haywire for a while. That happens and we all learn something!
 
#36 ·
wow, all you have to do in this situation is chain the dog up outside a window and throw spit balls at it until it submits to your authority. If the dog is stubborn then just fall back on old trusty...pee on his head.
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:rofl:
 
#39 ·
Hey now, Alphaness is serious bidnez. How else will we keep the mass amounts of dog packs from taking over the world. If we don't keep dogs in their place they will be walking on two legs and brokering deals with the aliens to dominate us. Don't come crying to me when your best friend straps a choke chain on you all and starts jerking on it like it was a tug toy.
 
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