The champions...is that what fans of show dogs want?

**alfi** · 11-25-2009, 04:33 AM

YouTube - German Shepherd half dog half frog

You heard the judge clearly say working type dogs will not win. They "don't fit the breed standard". These are registered as purebred German Shepherd Dogs! Doesn't that make them a junk registry?

Shouldn't be a rule that working dogs obtain a working title?

molliefan09 · 11-25-2009, 06:32 AM

looks to me that the "show" GSD has actually had a decline in breed standard. the newer version of the GSD seems to have many more bone/arthritic health problems and dont live with a normal, good quality life due to pain induced by these. IMO some working dogs that are put in the show ring are far from good breed quality if you want one that is in fact working quality. How is that GSD in that video going to beable to do the work it was originally designed to do?? It wont beable to do it sufficiently. These days i dont think a lot of people take that into concideration when purchasing a dog for working. They just assume because it is a champion akc, uka, ckc champion that it MUST be an extrodinary subject and that they are getting the best of the best. NOT!

**alfi** · 11-25-2009, 07:25 AM

In our farm we have 13 working dogs...clearly from working lines with no titles or some even papers. I bet my dogs can beat these show-GSDs in just about anything! Even the poodle can do herding better!

My father runs the farm for more than 35 years working side by side with many dogs. Nowadays when it is time to buy a new puppy to continue the job of our old one we don't care about the color etc as much as we do care about their working ability. I used to love GSDs but now is getting harder everyday to find a good working GSD. That is why we give up on all this crup and getting involved with a real working dog, the Malinois. No papers, no shows, nothing other than a pure working machine, simple and direct...(stolen words..

)

The judge in the video said that these dogs doesn't fit the breed standards! Since when the GSD is more a show-dog than a working tool? What do breeders do about that? Is registering papers just craps? or the AKC/KC are JUST a registering body?!! How can we call them "reputable breeders" cause of a title?

**alfi** · 11-25-2009, 07:35 AM

Here some pics of how GSDs have changed YouTube - History of the change in the german shepherd over the years

stumpy · 11-25-2009, 08:43 AM

Any dog I purchased would have to have lines a working title, preferably a European title where they are judged on structure, beauty and workability. The sport of schutzhund was developed to test the breedability of a German shepherd (now used for many working breeds) and includes titles for beauty, structure and workability. You won't find a "V" rated dog that doesn't have it all.

**alfi** · 11-25-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy

Any dog I purchased would have to have lines a working title, preferably a European title where they are judged on structure, beauty and workability. The sport of schutzhund was developed to test the breedability of a German shepherd (now used for many working breeds) and includes titles for beauty, structure and workability. You won't find a "V" rated dog that doesn't have it all.

I am not sure I understand what you mean...the dogs in this video I don't think they can win any working title. Shouldn't be a rule that working dogs obtain a working title?

(I am not judging anyone for what kind of dog they have - How could I?) All it worries me is that the judge there said that working GSDs (and probably other breeds too) can't win in the show ring cause they don't fit the breed standards!
And I am wondering, aren't the breed standards for the GSD to have a certain purpose? (like working?) I mean a GSD should be a GSD and not two separate dogs one for the show and one for work.

I am not any expert either a breeder so that's how I see it. I kind of think that the dogs in the video might be in pain with those legs and back and I don't believe that should be the breed standards.

Mikey · 11-25-2009, 11:08 AM

THis kind of reminds me of horses. In some cases in WP the horses are so lame and bred so funny for the LOOK of WP or halter classes they couldn't possibly work...I'm sure it happens in other horse diciplines but that's mainly the one I know about it happening in.
As well there is a line (Impressive) that delivers horses who positive for a disorder that can kill them -but they breed these horses anyways (often knowing they are positive) because they carry these genes for great halter horses...

I am sure it's the same in the dog show ring, though I've never shown-the breed standard is such a way that to win you exaggerate that characteristic over several generations until it's soo exagerated that the animal is so far from original that they could not really do what they were originally bred to do?

I have to say-that video is freaking sad-and the dog seems to be in pain-but maybe just is stressed???

I heard years ago (before the interwebs) that rough collies, the small face was desired, but they were bred so small that they were dying or suffering from such a small brain that it was banned...but I'm not sure-can't find a source online for that.

rubyred92 · 11-25-2009, 02:07 PM

It makes me sick, those poor dogs. What makes me especially sick are the breeders, showers, and judges that think it's acceptable. Bettering the breed, my ass.

Velocity · 11-25-2009, 08:57 PM

It depends on the breed. I have dobermans. I dont work my dogs, and my friends dont work thier dogs. We are to wraped up in the conformation rings that we dont have the time, or the desire to do Sch. Just because our dogs dont have working titles doesnt mean they cant do it.

It comes down to doing your research. Meet the breeder, the dogs, ect... And then make a decision.

stumpy · 11-25-2009, 09:33 PM

Alfi, I didn't watch the video... ! stated that if you are breeding a working dog, whether it's hunting, herding, guardwork, sporting, coursing, whatever...the dog should be titled for beauty, structure and it's working ability. I wouldn't even look at a dog that wasn't. It is a privledge to breed your dog, it should be earned.

There a plenty of people showing in the ring, for confirmation whose dogs are also titled in the field. Unfortunately, GSDs aren't one of them. However, to get a sch title, the dog must meet some requirements including hip and elbow certification. To get a V rating, (the highest rating possible, in the schutzhund world) they must be titled in confirmation, also.

I actuallly did show Wabbit, my GSD and SCH partner in the AKC beauty shows a couple times. We about got laughed out of the ring...Not only was he not the color of Rin Tin Tin, his head was too blocky, his back was too straight and he didn't stand flat on his hocks! Needless to say, I might have been more disappointed if he placed and looked like an American Shepherd (a completely different breed, in my book). We were actually there for the socialization.