Herding

elisabeth · 01-11-2010, 03:03 AM

My 9 month old German Shepherd will be starting herding classes on his 1st birthday (spring). It is recommended to wait until they are a year old atleast, but I can already tell he will enjoy it - it is in his blood of course!

We will be doing tending-style herding, which one do you practice?

Look forward to chatting with you and 'picking your brain'.. lol.

Honest Dog · 07-02-2010, 11:15 AM

Herding breeds are the best ! We have a Border Collie ; my husband competes in USBCHA trials (after 18 mos. of lessons and practice !). Not a cheap sport- but addicting. We drive an hour just to get to where the sheep are. Trialing is really fun. Great people. Be careful, you might get hooked like we did !
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Elana55 · 07-02-2010, 12:30 PM

My last dog, Kazi, was a working herding dog on my dairy farm (GSD herding cattle). Very useful dog to have. She woud herd ANY animal I asked her to herd.. including the deer out of the corn field. No interest in bringing them down.. just driving them OUT of the field.

When I had to move the cows to a new pasture I would go out on the horse and Kazi and the horse worked the cows together.. keying off each other and helping each other if need be. An amazing experience I will never regret having (other than no longer being a farmer and having either that dog or that horse).

Current dog has shown natural tendancy to herd and on 3rd lesson graduated to the Big field, a few more sheep and no check rope.

Several of my friends work with a couple of local shepherds with border Collies (one makes her entire living from training BC's for herding and trialing.. and she wants to train Atka even tho she is not a BC).

Tending requires a LOT of sheep. German shepherds are tenders.. tho Atka seems very good at driving which is a BC speciality.

Corgis have been used on horses because they have short legs and the horses "tend" to miss. "Tend," of course, is where the risk is.

I loved being a farmer.. miss it. If I was I would be training and trialing herding dogs.

Honest Dog · 07-02-2010, 03:13 PM

Excellent, Kazi ! You've really done the real thing when it's needed- that is so cool. We are merely "sport herders" now; Bryan and Scoop, our BC, are concentrating on getting to open level on USBCHA. They've moved on from AKC trials after getting advanced titles in A course. My husbands dream is to be a professional trainer, but he wants to get to the Nationals 1st. We travel all over- next month a big trial in Lacamas Valley , WA. Where Scoop is in pro-Novice. I'm only "herding mom" and I get more nervous than he does! Were so hooked, We've already been checking out land to get some sheep !
I've never seen a tending trial (I think AKC calls it "C course) but I heard from my Terv friends that it's something to see !
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pawzaddict · 07-04-2010, 01:30 PM

I am enrolling my dog into herding classes (I will be enrolled myself into herding 101 to learn the terminology as well as how my dogs mind works) in a couple months in September. Any advice for a beginner?

Elana55 · 07-04-2010, 09:04 PM

Put a fool proof no matter what is happening LIE DOWN on your dog and lie down like beind shot in the direction of travel.. no turning to face you crap!

Voice and hand signal.. whistle will come later.

pawzaddict · 07-05-2010, 01:38 PM

He is pretty good about the lie down thing but he needs work on how to do it right where he is with a simple lie down command. Thanks! I wonder if they help us along with this as its not competition herding its just for the individual owner and dog to enjoy the time and for the dog to work.

Elana55 · 07-05-2010, 02:15 PM

The reason for the compliant lie down is to take pressure off the sheep. Everything is fine for fun until a dog drives sheep thru a fence and one of 'em breaks a leg or the whole shootin' match goes in the road.

Gripping is another No No. Dog grabbing sheep to make them behave is very bad. Lie down can stop that nonsense.

Remember, herding is NOT about the dog. It is about the LIVESTOCK. The livestock make the farmer or rancher money and the dog is a tool to help efficiently handle the livestock. Dog does not work out, get another dog that will. No matter how recalcitrant the livestock the dog is a TOOL and as a TOOL must do a job and do it right. Of course the training has to be there.

I can tell you this... a lot of farmers who use dogs are pretty rough in their training (not all). They need the dog to work and comply no matter what. Livestock is worth more than the dog.

To that end, get a great lie down on your dog NOW before Sheep and prey drive etc.

pawzaddict · 07-05-2010, 07:55 PM

I think you may be misunderstanding my situation..I will be enrolling in a class which is 8 hours to teach ME about herding, the terminology, the dogs mind set and the tools to use to work with Harvick (my dog) so they are going to teach me what is necessary as this is going to be a small stock (I am sure) to start with and there will be introductions to make sure he is ok with the sheep. This stock is not there to make the herder money, the stock is there to teach dogs to herd...so maybe in a sense they are there to make money but its not taking place with a ranchers stock. I hope that makes sense. I will work to get a better down from him for the time being and then wait and see what the trainer wants me to do from there. Thanks again

Elana55 · 07-05-2010, 08:32 PM

No No.. not at all.... That is how Atka started her lessons.

My point is that even if you are using dog broke trial or training stock, the PREMISE is the same. The stock is more important than the dog. Things like gripping in the excitement and prey drive etc. can destroy stock and a dog that does those things is not a herding dog.

Some dogs will grip in the excitement but I have seen GSD's out on stock and they are not herding.. they are hunting and their intent is to do harm. I know of a BC that herds beautifully but grips every run so is no longer herding anything but the handler. He is done, that dog is!

The poiint I am making is the object or herding is that the dog is a tool in handling stock like the tractor is a tool in bringing feed to the stock and taking away the manure. A good dog makes stock handling beautiful and seemingly easy.

The Trial is an extension of herding for real.. on a ranch or farm for a rancher or farmer.. so the dog must still work with the stock being first and foremost.

That is what I mean. Many people go into herding and it is all about the dog.. when they need to remember what this is really about and that is learning how to handle stock with a dog as a tool to that end.

You will have fun but you should find you are learning an awful lot about livestock. IOW's we will make a farmer outta you yet!