raw newbie

yecrua

So, I just started with raw about a week ago for Franny, my 4-month Golden. Franny loves food of pretty much any description, but her response to her new dinner is hysterical--she is literally leaping for joy. So much fun to watch!

At the moment we have been doing kibble for breakfast and lunch (mix of Orijen and Blue Buffalo) and chicken pieces at night.


Anyway, my concern at present is that she seems to have an upset tummy. She did not have particularly good stools before we started with raw (some firm, some really mushy and stinky) but they have gotten noticeably worse the past few days. Now there is no form at all to her poop, although it is not quite liquid (sorry to be so graphic!). Last night around midnight she was pacing around, obviously uncomfortable, so I took her out and she seemed to feel better (she never usually needs to go out in the night). Then this morning she threw up a little, but otherwise seemed like she felt fine.

I did ask my vet about her stools last week (before starting raw) and he said to give her some metamucil, which I admittedly have not yet tried.

My list of possible remedies includes the metamucil, canned pumpkin, yogurt, and possibly fasting her for a day. Any experience with these techniques, or other recommendations? I know a little bit of upset when switching is supposed to be normal, I just want to get all the advice I can until I start to feel like I know what I'm doing.

Thanks!

gershepsmyfav

Most people that switches to raw and still uses the kibble too, find it causes problems. It did when I switched. So I just went raw all the way. It worked out better. I have fed raw for 14 yrs.

Mikey

TBH I think raw is a bad idea period. And to boot mixing with kibble does not produce good results. Why don't you cook the chicken? There is nothing less healthy about cooked chicken-it's the same as raw but without parasites! You can still do kibble and cooked chicken And there is no concern with salmonella (Which can kill....)

Also metamuci....k look. Raw is supposed to be healthy. THat's why you are feeding it right? If you have to medicate and supliment to make it work-what does that say? That its NOT working...So cook the chicken...and maybe get the tummy checked at the vet. I know the 'raw people' will say thats normal...but diarhea and vomiting and stomach pains ARE NOT signs of a healthy diet. And neither is salmonella poisoning...

pawzaddict

I always recommend that if you really really want to consider raw you need to find a nutritionist and get their views and all details. There are already pre-made raw diets as well that you can look into. I have found 1 pre-made by a company that seems to be easy on the stomach and contains fruits, veggies, meat, and supplements all in one.

Ali

I would just drop her straight to raw. Raw meats and kibble are very different in digesting. Raw only takes about 4-5 hours, and kibble can take up to 10hrs. Upset stomachs and loose stool ,and even a bit of vomiting are common when switching to raw. They body is just adjusting to what it should naturally eat. When you have diarrhea or vomit, do you run to the emergency room? No, because its not life threatening , and is usually only takes a few days to get all better.

Are you feeding the prey raw model diet? Your pooch should be getting 80% prey, 10% bones, and 10% secreting organ (liver, spleen,stomach,heart,ect). However, I would just stick with chicken only for the first four weeks, then VERY slowly start introducing new meats. When you feel your pup is ready to be introduced to secreting organs start with liver. However only give her a very small piece, about the size of your fingernail. Liver loosens stool, so if things seem to get too bag,just back up and start over. Raw feeding is all about finding out what your pup likes and does well with. Some eat primarily chicken and love it, others can`t handle it. This is when that 'Know thy dog' comes in handy.

Mikey,

Seminole poisoning is very rare in dogs, and I`ve actually only heard of Seminole poisoning in dogs that are fed kibble. Dogs have a much higher immune system then we do. Ever heard the saying 'A dogs mouth is cleaner then yours?' While that might be debatable, a dogs saliva can fight much more bacteria then our mouths. Also, if seminole could infect dogs so easily, many of the wolf population would be wiped out from all the raw food and sick animals they eat, and carcasses they scavenge from. Our beloved domestic dogs might look different from wolves, but their internal anatomy and physiology are still the same.

The reason why cooking isen`t as beneficial as raw is because cooking the meat removes certain nutrients vital to a dogs system. Also, cooked bones of any kind are very harmful to dogs. They become hard,and brittle. Bones that are inside raw food are tender and flexible,and are very easily digestible compared to cooked bones.

Mikey

There is nothing that can take up to ten hours. Sorry even complex folded protein is five hours max.
Raw for a pup is not safe...

WOW only heard of it in kibble? Really? It's actually not rare at all, ....well not only that it's not rare but that it's not found in kibble...feeding raw chicken MIGHT have something to do with it....

Proof? I have access to vet articles...never read such a thing...??? ANY link here? I'm not trying to be a jerk but I've been reading the literature for almost ten years here, and I've NEVER read anything like this except for...you know...on the raw sites...


Again link? Because ....welll....prove it...any link?????? Any website that says this besides raw sites??

Umn...they are....what wolves do you know..and how old are they are? Because average age is six...so you know....
Well basic...wolves live less then dogs. So why WOULD we model a diet after them...not only that but dissection of wolves shows that they are lacking in essential nutrients and vitamins...Just wondering why we would feed our dogs based on animals that live half as long as them?


That's rad...what nutrients does it remove? Specifically...which vitamins and nutrients are destroyed at what temperatures? Just not sure here?

Sarah

Salmonella can be found in kibble Mikey. Natural Balance kibble just got recalled for potential salmonella.

I don't know enough about feeding raw to dogs so I can't really argue either way. As for wolves not living as long in the wild. Most any animal kept in captivity is going to live longer than it would in it's natural environment and I don't think it has anything to do with diet. It is more dangerous living outside in the wild than it is living in a house environment where humans watch your every move. We take dogs to the vet when they are sick, we provide them shelter from predators, etc.

I have been researching raw for ferrets and it actually does seem like the best diet choice for them. Their bodies digest food so quickly they aren't really at risk of catching salmonella or other parasites humans could get eating raw meat. As for dogs, I don't know, but I know plenty of people that feed their dogs raw successfully. None of them have had problems with salmonella or issues with choking on bones.

Ali

"There is nothing that can take up to ten hours. Sorry even complex folded protein is five hours max.
Raw for a pup is not safe..."

There are plenty of foods that can take up to ten hours. If you do some researching, you`ll find that for many dogs, digesting raw foods take a considerable less amount of time then kibble. If you`d like to try, throw a raw carrot in with your dog`s meal. For most dogs, it will take around 10-12 hours for the carrot to 're appear'. I did the test and it took about 10-11hrs for it to completely go through the digestive system.

And why do you say raw food in unhealthy for pups? Do you have proof of this?
I know several breeders who start their pups on raw, and I must say, the raw fed pups seem to grow up much healthier and stronger the kibble-fed pups.


"WOW only heard of it in kibble? Really? It's actually not rare at all, ....well not only that it's not rare but that it's not found in kibble...feeding raw chicken MIGHT have something to do with it...."

Here you go,
Myths About Raw: Will the bacteria in raw meat hurt my dog?

"Umn...they are....what wolves do you know..and how old are they are? Because average age is six...so you know....
Well basic...wolves live less then dogs. So why WOULD we model a diet after them...not only that but dissection of wolves shows that they are lacking in essential nutrients and vitamins...Just wondering why we would feed our dogs based on animals that live half as long as them? "

I believe Sarah pretty much summed up that one.

Here is another wonderful link.
Raw Feeding FAQ


Raw diets are not for every dog. For some, it dosen`t agree well with their system. Just like some dogs don`t agree well with kibble.

I started off feeding my pup, Caddy on Diamond Naturals kibble, and switched to several other brands like Blue buffalo, and Evo. She still had horribly skin allergies, got hot spots, and I was having to clean her ears twice a week. On another forum, I posted all of Caddy problems,everything I had tried, and asked for any advice. I was very surprised to hear stories from other dog owners who had the same problems. All whom had switched to raw, with wonderful results.

Since being on raw, Caddy is just glowing! Her itching has stopped completely,and her hot spots are gone. And her ears are MUCH cleaner! She has alot more energy then before, and her coat quality is very soft and shiny. Caddy is just overall much healthier.

If I woulden`t have switched Caddy to raw, I know the same problems would still be occurring and Caddy would have been ALOT less happy.
So how can raw food be bad for my pup, if it has so greatly improved her health and happiness?

Try looking at things from both sides of the fence once in a while.

Criosphynx

complete antedote,,. But all five of my dogs that I tried raw on were violently ill. Kiwi was so sick I had to take her to the e-vet to recieve fluids, she had puked so much.

Iam not saying its bad/good whatever. But I will say its not as easy as the raw people make it out to be. You don't just toss a chicken leg in a bowl and be done with it.

one thing I recommend to anyone thinking about raw. Search long and hard for this word.


DETOX.



many wont mention it, or will mention it only briefly, while your dog adjusts you may have vomiting, diarhea, shedding, odor etc.

nainai0585

I'm in the newbie camp as well in feeding raw. My 2 yr old JRT started 3 months ago, and my 5 month old JRT started when he came to our home 2 months ago. I will admit that I did try feeding raw to my adult 6 months prior and felt way over my head, so I switched her back to kibble. I HATED the way she looked, smelled, and felt while on kibble. After A LOT more research I switched them back. This is what I did for each individual dog:

Roxy (2 yr old)
- "detoxed" for 1 day then provided only cut up chicken. Result: she refused to eat.
- Provided only chicken once a day at the same time for four days straight. Result: She refused to eat.
- Started taking drastic measures and followed the training technique called Teaching Your Dog to Eat: TeachEat
- Took Roxy 2 weeks to realize that this was her only choice. Now 90% of the time I have an awesome eater.
-Did not provide organ meats until 2-3 weeks after starting the RMB diet.

Kratos (5 months)
-"detoxed" for one day after he came to my home.
- Took to his chicken meals with gusto from day one of the RMB diet.
- Had loose stool only for the first two weeks (due to the change from kibble to raw) and provided 1-2 tsp of canned pumpkin each day for 2 weeks. He will still get canned pumpkin in some meals throughout the week.
- Did not provide organ meats until 1 month after starting diet, and added them very slowly (smaller pieces then he should be getting) until he was getting his full amount organ.
- I used a whole chicken, then cut it up into the right portion size to make several meals. I still do this, but am starting to add other meats slowly now.

Roxy has no difficulties with her stool, and in fact she never did when eating both kibble and raw. Kratos will go back and forth between normal and soft stools, but I believe this is mainly due to a lot of stressfull situations he's in. For example: Meeting new dogs, meeting new people, walking down the street on a leash, experiencing a busy road while walking on a leash, going to the beach, camping, etc.

Roxy gets 3% of her body weight in food each day, mainly b/c she is in training to weight pull. I feed the 80-10-10 ratios, so it looks something like this (and yes, I do have these equations written down on my fridge )
Roxy is only 13 lbs and is in training to weight pull:
-140 grams meat (80%)
-17 grams bone (10% - I add this calculation into the meat, so I will weigh out a total of 157 grams)
- 8 grams liver (5% organ - I have to feed as a treat though as she doesn't like it)
- 8 grams organ (5%)

Kratos is 8 lbs and gets 10% of his body weight at this time - this percentage will slowly go down to 3% at 1 yr as he too will be in training for weight pulling.
- 289 grams meat (80%)
- 36 grams bone (10%)
- 15 grams liver - not exactly 5%
- 15 grams organ - not exactly 5%